Living Boldly for Christ as a Pro Athlete (part 1-3)

Part 1

Katie Cousins is a pro soccer player who just signed to play with the Angel City Football Club. Katie also works at Snowbird in-between seasons. She is a long-time friend of Brody and SWO, so we wanted to check in during this exciting season. 

Brody sat down with her to discuss how she uses her gifts as a platform for ministry, to bring glory to Jesus. Pray that the Lord would use her to impact those she connects with through her new opportunity. 

• Angel City Football Club

view part 1 transcript

Welcome to no Sanity Required from the ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.

Last year we did a study, this was tied to several events that we did at Snowbird, but we did a study on the book of Daniel. We walked through Daniel at Red Oak Church and then at our college event at SWO, we looked at Daniel and we considered Daniel’s resolve. There’s this moment at the beginning of the book of Daniel where it says Daniel resolved and then that becomes a recurring theme. So the idea is this man Daniel lived with deep conviction, resolve, courage, but also a great deal of grace and kindness and compassion. And so it’s not this bravado, this obnoxious, aggressive Christianity where the call to courage is a call to be rambunctious or combative to secular ideas or to secular institutions or to worldly kings and rulers. It’s more what we see in Daniel is a resolve to be faithful to the convictions of of his faith, a resolve to be silent when needed, to speak when needed, but to have wisdom that Jesus talks about wisdom and grace and humility, but also strength. And this also aligns with New Testament teaching that we are to, Paul writes to the Romans that we’re to submit to earthly kings and rulers, recognizing that God is ultimately ordaining and guiding governments and kings and rulers and prime ministers and presidents and dictators and monarchs.

So we should submit to them, we should respect them, but we should only fear God. Peter would write that we should respect and honor the emperor, we should fear the Lord. And Paul elsewhere from Romans 13, Paul also writes that as much as it is possible, we should live at peace with people. Peter writes that we should always be ready to give an account. And so the scripture lays out for believers this balance of, hey, you can be salt and light, a city on a hill, a light in the darkness, and there’s a time to be a person who takes a stand, who speaks with boldness and clarity, but there’s always this call to humility, to gentleness, to a firm resolve, but also to be kind to others and to be salt and light. And today’s guest is Katie Cousins. We had Katie on about a year ago and at that time Katie had just wrapped up her a season, a soccer season. She’s a professional soccer player and she had just wrapped up a season playing in Europe. Iceland to be specific, to be precise. European soccer culture is just massive. It’s huge and even women’s soccer there is probably more well supported and attended than it is even in some of our more soccer friendly cities and markets.

Katie had had a super successful season overseas, but the ultimate goal was to play in the women’s at the women’s professional ranks in the US. So women’s soccer equivalent of Major League Baseball, the NBA, the NFL, the NHL, the NASCAR Cup Series. So sorry, I got, like a lot of you probably, I’ve got a little bit of weather effect in my, you know, like I’ve got sinuses. So I apologize for that. But women’s soccer at the most elite level would be women’s professional soccer in the US. And so that was her goal ultimately. Well, she achieved that goal. The Lord opened the door for her to do that because of his grace and kindness and favor and her hard work to review for those of you that maybe didn’t hear that. And I would encourage you to go back and listen to that episode from a year ago. Be kind of crazy listening to it now that we’ve got the the, you know, the second part of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say, the rest of the story. Katie. Katie’s career was Stellar leading up to this point. She was a 1990. I’m 90.

There was no 1990 anything. The 2014 or 15, I think 14. Gatorade National Player of the Year for high school women’s soccer. So she was the number one player in the U.S. as a high school senior. She played for an elite club team out of Richmond, Virginia. Her high school team was in Forest, Virginia, but she played for an elite team out of Richmond. She went on to the University of Tennessee. She could have played anywhere she wanted to, pretty much. She chose University of Tennessee and became a multiple time All-American, multiple all SEC, Awards. And then she also was instrumental in leading that team to the best season they’d had. And they made it to the elite eight of the NCAA tournament during her college tenure.

And I’m not reading this, I’m doing.

This from memory, so bear with me. During her college tenure, she was in the World Cup, the under 20 World Cup. So as a 19 year old, she took a red shirt from her second season at Tennessee, played on the national team. She had played on the high school national team. In Mexico City prior to that. And so then she made the under 20 World Cup team, played in Papua New Guinea in the World Cup for the US, came back, finished her college career, was poised for the draft, and that was the COVID year. So there was no soccer anywhere. She was, at that point, I think her and her agent were looking at some of the European markets, particularly a team in Spain that it looked like she was going to play for. And then the entire season got canceled. So Katie took a year off. She’s off trained, worked, she bases her off season, she bases home out of here. She actually lives in our home with us and this is her base of operation. She loves Snowbird, is committed to the ministry here, loves helping teenagers, young people, loves serving. She’s such a servant man.

She works in the grounds department. So splitting and stacking firewood, running a weed eater, running a leaf blower. This is an elite professional athlete and she’s just got that mentality.

We love her a lot.

We’re proud of her. But the Lord had opened the door last year before last, the year after COVID, so a year off, which is detrimental to a professional sports career. But she was able to get picked up by a European team, had a standout year, and then was picked up by the Los Angeles team for the next, she got a two-year contract to go play for Angel City Football Club. Going into that, I think she was in negotiation and talks with several US clubs, but she ended up at Angel City. Well, Los Angeles is super progressive and women’s soccer in Los Angeles is the tip of the spear when it comes to progressive activism. You don’t see a ton of activism in a lot of men’s sports. You’ll see some. There was, you know, there’s, I think maybe in the area of racism, you’ll see some activism. When it comes to social issues and causes.

But.

For what women’s soccer, it’s almost like it feels like a lot of times it’s activism based, kind of over the top, I think. And if you’ve ever had that experience where you’re like, hey, you’re an athlete, and this could be an NBA player or soccer player, whatever, you’re an athlete, shut up and play ball. You’re getting paid millions to play ball.

Or whatever it is.

Stop with the activism already, you know, like, and I understand there needs to be, you know, the people that have a voice need to use their voice. And so I don’t think that, I don’t think that, that professional athletes should be silent on issues that matter. They should use their voice. I do believe that. And I feel like we tend to run to extremes as, as humans. And so throwing the baby out with the bathwater would be, you’re a professional athlete. Just play soccer and don’t talk about issues that matter. Just be a dumb jock. That’s not what I’m saying. But at the same time, I feel like there needs to be moderation in use your platform to tackle issues that affect all people that matter, issues of equality and poverty and things like that. I get it. And even for someone who’s, who’s very convicted in, in their own personal, like, like their own personal set of values and convictions, they want to talk about the things that matter to them. I get that. And for someone who’s really motivated by issues of the lgbtq ia plus, you know, like those issues that are related and pertaining to that.

They want to use their platforms for that. I get that. But there needs to be some moderation. And it’s kind of like this. The world of women’s soccer is, like, activism based. It’s more activism than it is soccer.

It feels like, and.

Maybe I’m off on that. And if I am, then then I would stand corrected. But it just feels like every time you turn around it’s well, this is pride month. We’re celebrating the rainbow. We’re like it and I don’t know. I’m rambling right now, but but Katie going out to to play for this club. We knew this was going to be a thing and we had long conversations about it. You can hear it if you go.

Back and listen to that episode from a year ago. And so she got out there and.

Because of one post from a major league baseball player who was, who was refusing to wear the rainbow flag during pride month on his jersey or his hat. And he was actually one of a few guys for the Tampa Bay, baseball team that, that was like, no, we’re.

Not going to do that.

And here’s why we have this conviction and we’re not going to do something that goes against that spiritual moral conviction. And, and Katie, Katie responded, you know, to that with affirmation. And then she was really, really, really persecuted and ridiculed because she simply affirmed or supported this, this player’s decision not to wear the rainbow flag. In turn, she was not going to wear the rainbow flag, which was going to mean she didn’t even dress out. She, she wouldn’t even be allowed to dress out and So it turned into a lot of, a lot, a lot, a lot of heat and persecution, specifically, particularly at the, you know, in the social media circles. Katie took a beating, man.

They, they tore her up like the.

The Angel City fan base tore her up. And then that, even the team turned on her. And only a few teammates really made her feel supported. And we were walking through that with her. We were on the phone with her daily. And in texting with her a lot. And the whole experience came to a head during two days of inclusion training. And during that time of inclusion training, there was a lot of pressure put on Katie to capitulate, to admit that she was wrong and unloving and hurtful, and to change or alter her stance on these things. And she just, with quiet and gentle resolve, the resolve of Daniel, the resolve of Esther, the resolve of those who have been persecuted even unto death. She said, I’m gonna. I’m gonna keep my mouth shut. I’m gonna smile and be the best friend and teammate I can be, but I’m not going to capitulate to. To a social. To a socialistic, activist based. Ideology or what have you. And she didn’t, she held firm and just took the ridicule. And so I wanted to sit down.

With her and walk through what this last year has been like.

And I hope it’s my prayers that this will be an encouragement to those of you that have been through something like this, that have been ridiculed, that have been persecuted, and that this would be an encouragement to you. And that you would stand firm and stand fast and be resolved to be a salt, to be a light in the darkness, to be salt in the world, to be salt and light, and to be the hands and feet of Jesus. And when you face persecution, to not feel like you have to jump at that persecution and be overly defensive, you know, to not feel like you’ve got to roar back and that there is, there’s, you don’t, there’s like not just fight or flight, it’s not just, well, I got to run away and hide, or I got to roar and fight. It’s you can resolve to stand firm in place, be immovable. Paul says to the Corinthians, be steadfast, be immovable, be abounding in the work of the Lord. And you can put your hand to the plow and endure and withstand whatever, whatever hardship comes. I hope that Katie’s story will encourage you to that.

And please pray for Katie because she’s going to continue to live in this world she has left. Her contract was terminated with Angel City recently and she signed a new contract to go back to Europe to play.

And I think it’s gonna be a.

Refreshing change for her. But pray for her that the Lord would continue to give her opportunities for the gospel and then the strength and resolve to take those opportunities and to stand firm and to be steadfast. I hope you enjoy our conversation. I hope it’s an encouragement to you. Thank y’all for listening to no Sanity Required. Let’s get into this conversation with Katie.

I wish I’d have gone back and listened to our, our conversation from last year because that’s a year ago.

Yeah.

And, wow, a lot happened in that year. It’s crazy. I was, last night we went to Laili’s game. Laili’s my 17 year old and it was their first basketball game of season and they played about hour and a half away. He played a Georgia school. And we drove down and it made, and, I mean, I was thinking last.

Year, the same time.

Yeah, same exact week. Her first game was. But that was at a Georgia school, a different school, but it’s still North Georgia. That was at Fannin County High School. And we, I remember driving. I can still remember going down spur 60 Highway.

Yep. Talking about.

Talking about. Yeah.

Okay. You’re going into the Lions Den here. Going to LA. It’s not just LA, it’s professional women’s soccer in LA. It’s the tip of the progressive spear. The tip of the activist spear, like progressive activism. You can’t go, there’s no place you can go and be further out front with that.

And.

I mean, I even think we said, it’ll be interesting to see where we’re at a year from now.

Yeah.

Because we, I, we talked about, like, kind of knowing what I’m getting into.

But I don’t, I don’t, I didn’t.

Expect what happened to have happened. Yeah, I expected some of it, but not all of it.

Well, I think I, we’re gonna get into that for listeners and, and give you kind of, and a lot of our people, because, I mean, I talked about it on here. A lot of people were praying for you and. Praying for that situation this past summer. But even though we talked about it, I remember distinctly even saying, there’s no way you can totally prepare for this. Because whatever you’re preparing for, whatever you’re thinking, it’s going to be worse or harder or different. There’s no way you got to go walk through it. It’s kind of like when we do Swiftwater Rescue training, you teach somebody how to do something. But then we do this thing called the strainer. A strainer is when, I mean you’ve been on the river enough, a strainer is when you’ve got, imagine a tree has fallen across the river and you can see that tree on the surface of the river, but you do not want to float, if you fall out of your boat you do not want to float into that tree because you don’t know what’s under it. It creates a straining effect and that’s where people will get tangled and drown.

The last drowning I remember on the local river was a strainer. A guy went under the undercut rock and created a strainer. And we do this swift water rescue training where we take people and we go into, at the Nantahala River, where we put in the left side of that peninsula is coming out of the power plant. What’s coming off the bottom of the dam, that’s the cold water. What makes the NanahalE River so cold is that water coming in right there, the right side of that peninsula, that surface water just coming from the NanahalE River. And it’s cold, but it’s not like iceberg cold. And so the way you make a strainer is we take a big piece of PVC pipe, like 8 inch, like septic line size PVC pipe, that would simulate a tree log or limb. And run rope through it and tie the rope off on either side of the river. And it’s tied off so that that pipe is just bobbing in the water. So you’ve got a six foot piece of pipe that’s bobbing on top of the water tied off to either side. And it slides on that rope and it simulates kind of a log or a limb that would be floating in the water.

And then you have to jump in the water and swim into that and you go feet first and you let yourself go under it. And I’m acting this out for Katie, but y’all can’t really see this. But if you can imagine, you go as if you’re gonna go under that piece of PVC pipe and you hold your arms up by your face, like kind of, you put your hands under your chin and you catch your armpits with your elbows going over it. So the water is coming over your head. From behind. Okay, so you’re holding this, you’ve got your arms around this simulated log. It’s a piece of PVC pipe. It’s unstable. It’s sliding back and forth on this rope. It’s bobbing up and down in this swift water. Your feet and legs have all gone under it and you’re holding it by your armpits. Now you have to do a maneuver where you do basically a muscle up. You pull yourself back up and over that strainer. So that your feet are as far under it as they can go, but you got to pull your body back up and over it. And the reason for the exercise is you never want to go under a strainer.

You don’t know what’s under there. So we go through, we explain it to people like, this is what a strainer is like. This is how it works. This is what it’s going to feel like. But there’s things you cannot know until you experience it. And so it’s like, For one, the water temperature is 38 degrees. You can tell somebody how cold that is and they could have even taken an ice bath. But swift current water at 38 degrees is just you can’t prepare for that.

It’s different when you get in.

It’s different when you get in it. And then you go so you’re already struggling to your lungs constrict. So you’re struggling to breathe even with your face above water. You’re struggling to breathe because everything’s constricting. And then when you hit that strainer, the water is now hitting the back of your head. Well, this is what you can’t prepare people for.

The most sensitive to cold piece of.

Your body is right in the back of your skull right here. There’s a nerve cluster at the top of your, you know, like neurologically, this is proven. Like when people do ice treatment, it’s very important to get that part of your head under the water, otherwise. You don’t get the full effect. So you’re in this strainer, this cold water is hitting dead center back of your head, just coming around your face, you’ve got one little air pocket, you’re under the strainer. You fail the course if you slip and go under the strainer. You’ve got to pull yourself up and over it. And it’s crazy how many people fail because they get in there and it shocks them and they just come unglued. Or you’re familiar with the long swim, you’ve got to jump in off that same peninsula and do a three minute float or swim downstream. And then when you get to the finish point, you got to turn and do an aggressive swim to the side in a current. And people by that point, a lot of times are in there, they’re in almost like hypothermic and you got to go pull them out.

So we were driving to this basketball game a year ago and we’re going through all these scenarios, but it’s like you got out there and you got in the strainer and it was there’s no way you can fully prepare, but there is a way to be prepared. And that’s a life of walking with Jesus.

So let’s walk through.

Let’s walk through what that experience was like. Just kind of walk me through overview of when you got to La, what it was like initially. How did you mesh with the team on the front end? Like, when you first got there, how did you sync up with folks? What were your initial interactions like?

Yes, so I moved there mid January and preseason started February 1st. And there was, I think, 24, 25 players at the time. And, you know, we spend a couple.

Hours a day with each other every single day, especially in preseason.

And it was fine. You know, I started off with an injury. I had that overuse injury in my hip. And got a quick surgery on it, got it fixed, no problem since, but.

Put me out for, I don’t know.

Two, two and a half months, not getting to train that much and wasn’t in rotation for games. But it was going great. I built friendships with people. I had a teammate from college on the team, which was really helpful in the long run of everything, having her there.

Yeah, it. It was going great.

Which is why.

I think with everything that happened, it was kind of like a stinger. Just losing a lot of friendships that I had.

But yeah, brand new club, so there’s a lot of excitement for the club. Playing in that home stadium is really, really fun.

It’s a fun atmosphere.

We were playing decent soccer as well. So overall, for the first probably six months out there, it was going good. We found a good church that I enjoyed being a part of and had community with.

In the pre-injury, you felt like you’re going to go in there and compete. You’re obviously working from, you’re one of the younger players, less experienced on the national stage or the international stage, but you’re coming from a smaller market in Europe where you’d play the year professional ball after having sit out a year following college because of the COVID year and soccer stopped everywhere. So you’re kind of having to work from behind.

Yeah, I. Yeah, I went in thinking, okay, I. I will be behind knowing who my teammates were and them having.

Experience in the league, but, yes, thinking I can go in and compete and.

Earn me some playing time, knowing who I am as a soccer player and.

Thinking that I have a good chance to contribute a lot.

And then the injury happens so that puts you so far behind to and you missed the first two and a half months. Yeah, now you’re so so by the time you’re Green like to play it’s it’s April.

I don’t think it was until May It was it was late. It was late because I had about Completely healthy and available. I had about three weeks and then.

And then what happened?

And then June happened.

Yeah, so so walk us through that. So.

People who don’t know the NW Cell celebrates Pride Month in the month of June and most almost all teams will do the Pride game and.

So.

I, you know, going into that morning, so we found out the day before.

Game who’s on the roster and who’s not.

Because you can only roster 20 people. Well, you always have a squad bigger than that. And so going that morning, I remember being a little anxious about it because I wasn’t sure if I was going to be on the roster or not. And if I’m on the roster, okay, now I have a decision to make. We’re gonna wear these jerseys with the rainbow numbers and.

It’s gonna be a big celebration and.

You know, I ended up not being.

On the roster for it so it’s like all right.

Well I don’t have to worry about it and just show up and cheer on my teammates and then that same day in the afternoon. I’m just scrolling on Instagram and I saw that post by Jason Adams for the Tampa Bay Rays. That’s the baseball team. Yeah and he, he’s a relief pitcher for them. And they had just had their own pride night game. And him and a group of guys, they had an option to wear, I think, a hat and a patch with.

The rainbow colors on it, and they chose not to.

And so he, he speaks up for.

This group of guys making a statement about it, and I just thought, wow, this wasn’t.

This was a good, it was a good post. So I just not thinking anything of it repost to my Instagram account.

Okay, let me, let me just read Jason Adams quote. It’s a hard decision because ultimately we all said what we want is them to know that all are welcome and loved here. But when we put it on our bodies, I think a lot of guys decided that it’s just a lifestyle that maybe not that we look down on anybody or think differently. It’s just that maybe we don’t want to encourage it if we believe in Jesus who’s encouraged us to live a lifestyle that would abstain from that behavior. It’s not judgmental. It’s not looking down. It’s just what we believe. The lifestyle he’s encouraged us to live for our good not to withhold. But again, we love these men and women. We care about them and we want them to feel safe and welcome here. So that was his quote and then like everything blew up like here’s here’s a comment from MSNBC that came out right after that raised picture Jason Adams homophobia undercuts every message of welcome on pride night you know Tampa Bay’s are renowned throughout baseball for exploiting market inefficiencies to find every advantage so they can fill the competitive team with a small market payroll so he starts in this article by talking about, you know, how competitive, how they’re able to compete.

But then he begins to undermine, you know, basically what he’s doing is. But this Adams guy is not really that good. He just, he’s, he’s discrediting him. So then it’s, he’s calling him a homophobe. When what, what Adams quoted was, hey, I’m a Believer. We love everybody. We’re not here to judge anybody. But I’m going to celebrate something that contradicts what I believe Christ has called us to. And you simply, yeah. Affirm that.

So I see the post and I’m like, oh, I feel the same way. I love my teammates. We’ve been friends for six months.

This is how it is.

This is exactly how I feel.

So I think it’s a respectful, decent.

Post and just popping on up my story and then didn’t think anything of it. And, I don’t know, within an hour or two, my phone is just blown up. Through because, you know, you get notifications.

If someone messages you.

And mainly my DMS were blowing up.

With just people sending me nasty stuff.

And so after about, I don’t know.

An hour and two, I was like, I gotta get off.

Because like we said, you can prepare for situations, and I knew I’d probably get some hate for going to Los.

Angeles, being in the league for being a Christian. But that was not something I was.

Prepared for and would maybe have thought I would have handled it a little better, like, mentally. But once it started happening, it got to me good. And after, yeah, a couple hours logged off, I got somebody to log in for me.

They were deleting everything so that eventually I would never see it.

I’m now constantly on the phone with you guys back here.

Just life just blew up.

I think that was a term I kept using. Hey, life in LA just blew up for me. What’s the phrase?

Yeah, we were even, you know, it was middle of summer camp here and it was crazy. We were starting each worship service, you know, 700-800 people in the building. Every night and we’re starting each worship service with prayer for you in that situation. I mean, a lot of people were dialed in, but you’re getting that prayer support. But the physical Geographic location, you’re in the thick of hostility. Like you’re surrounded by hostile, you know, you’re in enemy territory as far as your representation of the gospel. So that weekend, you’re in Louisville. You know you’re gonna see some snowbird folks, which turns into that two-day visit or 24-hour visit here. The hard ride back to the airport. I remember talking to you that night about how hard it was on your.

Way back to the airport.

By the time you got to LA, it was super late. While you were in Louisville, you wrote this, and this is raw and fresh because this was in the thick of it. Why don’t you read that?

So I titled it the Craziest Week of My Life. And it says, A human wanting to be faithful, many humans hating the truth, more humans pleading to the Father on.

Behalf, simple respectful posts, many offended and hurt, attacked on the socials, public and private, My God preserves my life.

The boss said, Don’t come sitting at home alone. Glad in the soul of your servant, for to you, O Lord, do I.

Lift up my soul.

A human in turmoil, heart hurting and tears that fall. For your, O Lord, are good and forgiving, abounding in steadfast love to all who call. Ignored, hated, rejected, it’s not me, it’s.

My God they trod.

For you are great and do wondrous.

Things, you alone are God.

Obedience I seek, teach me your way, O Lord. That I may walk in your truth. My heart isn’t trustworthy, so unite my.

Heart to fear your name.

Mine runs a million different directions, remembering who my God is brings me still. Merciful, gracious, slow to anger, abounding in.

Steadfast love and faithfulness. They reject, I submit.

They turn to feelings for love and truth. God, you are love and truth. Help them understand.

You lead, I follow.

I give thanks to youo, O Lord my God with my whole heart and.

I’ll glorify youy name forever.

It’s cool to read it now. I mean it was cool to read it then and I have that you wrote me a copy and I’ve got it saved but it’s cool to read it now looking back and just knowing the faithfulness of the Lord. So you’re everything’s blowing up and you’re getting a lot of hate on social media. But then at what point then does it do you like, when you get to a team meeting or practice that day, is that when it’s like, oh, gosh, people are treating me different?

Yeah.

So, you know, that was a Monday. It was after I’d seen my team. So it was after practice, all this happened. So I’m not around anybody on my team. We have a game on Tuesday. Well, I’m not on the roster for it, so I’m like, okay, well, I’ll just see him at the game. And then through a couple of conversations with people in my organization for the club, they, you know, they can’t tell me, hey, you can’t come to the.

Game, but they can. They did highly encourage, hey, maybe you should stay home for the game, for your safety. And so I’m like, I guess I’m not going to the game for your safety.

And because I was like, well, okay, my teammates aren’t happy. Obviously, a lot of fans are not happy with me. But I can go to the game. I don’t really have to be around my team locker room.

I can just stay up in the.

Box and just come out and watch them because I wanted to.

They were my teammates.

And I meant it when I said that, you know, I really do love.

These guys and want to support them.

But so I ended up not going to the game on Tuesday, went over to the pastor’s house, hung out with his family, watched the game on TV. And then Wednesday we had off, no practice. And then Thursday we traveled to Louisville. And that was also crazy because I’m, you know, I’m not on the roster for the previous game. And then I’m thinking, okay, well, I’m not traveling Louisville. And I remember us talking and y’all were trying to figure out, okay, can we send somebody out to Los Angeles to come spend time with me that weekend while my team is gone?

And Wednesday, I get a phone call.

From my coach saying, Hey, we got an injury.

You’re traveling with the team to Louisville tomorrow. Are you serious?

Like, you guys messing with me? They’re like, no, you’re coming. So we’re gonna have a Zoom call tonight. This is Wednesday night, and we’re gonna.

Tell the team and just kind of.

Quickly address what happened. So we have a Zoom call, and she’s kind of addressing it. We’re like, all right, Katie’s posted this, but this is our job. We need to be professional, respectful of each other. We’re going to Louisville. She’s coming.

Let’s just go get the job done.

So Thursday was the first day I saw my team.

We had early morning practice, and then we were going right to the airport to fly Louisville. And I remember riding with a teammate, and we sat in the parking lot. I sat in the parking lot for probably. I don’t know, five, seven minutes. I just couldn’t get out of the car.

I was so sick to my stomach, so anxious about it.

Just like, I don’t want to do this.

I don’t want to go. It was the first time I was gonna see my teammates. It had been days since it happened, and I’m not really hearing much from my teammates about it, so kind of just think worst case scenario with how they think in that situation and. You know, I finally got a car.

And went to practice and then that whole weekend I just kept my head.

Down Stayed to myself in the hotel.

Room what was that when like when you into practice that day?

What was the?

What was the? Describe sort of the atmosphere as it related to you like what you were feeling and then how was that different from what it would have been a week earlier?

Yes, so you know, I’m a pretty outgoing person, and I like to joke. I like to mess around, but obviously at the same time, get my job done on the field. And that is not how it went for me. I was quiet. I was just to myself. I’m not a very anxious person, and I was dealing with a decent bit of anxiety for those couple days. You know, I’ve told you this, my.

Trainers from the minute I walked into.

That room, thankfully for, I mean, weeks they were like this, just trying to get me to laugh and smile and just joking with me, being really extra.

With me just to help me feel comfortable. But just not a lot of interactions with teammates at all, which is not common for me.

And so from your perspective, you’re feeling it, so you’re kind of standoffish. But then your perception of where they’re at, are they giving you the cold shoulder, ugly looks, any comments? What, how did they, how were like, you know what I’m saying? Were they treating you differently? Or was it more you withdrawing?

So, yeah, that, like, the first day, just, I mean, there were no interactions with teammates, really. You know, later on, from my perspective, I felt like there were some interactions in practice and stuff that. I thought, okay, before this incident, this is not, this would have never happened.

And now it’s happening. You know, I don’t know what they’re thinking from their perspective of it, but.

I don’t know from my side, you.

Know, for a few weeks, I’m like, they don’t normally talk to me like this in practice, and now they are.

And I’m reading too much into it.

And, you know, for weeks, I was training so bad.

And I don’t know if it was. It was just mentally something just went wrong, and I just could not kick.

A soccer ball or I just wasn’t training well.

And also just, like, living in this weird tension of these guys hate me or, like, yeah, it was hard to go do my job every day. And, you know, be joyful about it because at the same time, I’m like.

I don’t want to be here. These guys just hate me.

Were they, you weren’t, you weren’t performing well in the field. And so you were getting so, like, some negative, like they’re saying some things that, and you don’t know, is this just in a natural flow of competition? Because this is, we are professional. This is the most elite world of women’s soccer you can possibly step into. This is the best of the best of the best. The cream of the crop is on this field right now. So am I just getting, because I’m not performing at a top level right now, I’m off my game a little bit. They’re, they’re saying things and treat me a certain way. Is it just because of my performance or in your mind, are you, are you thinking, no, they’re treating me different because of where things are right now?

Yeah, I think it was probably a combination of it. And it’s not everybody I had, I had some teammates, you know, every once in a while to check in be.

Like, hey, you good? And you doing okay?

Like we obviously, we see the stuff that’s being posted. It wasn’t just the IMS, it was.

You know, people are blowing up.

They’re blowing up, destroying you.

Like post too that I’ve had in the past going on and commenting a.

Bunch and anything Angel City’s posting. It’s getting commented on a bunch and.

But it was crazy.

You know, I came home that weekend, which was awesome. It was.

Yeah, you got to, they let you come from the Louisville game. So any group of us went up.

Yeah.

Any away game, you can take, you can have the option to stay back and bring your own, you can take your own flight home or you can fly back with a team.

And I was like, I texted my.

Office person and said, hey, Can I know this is last minute, but can I stay back?

Because we have two days off after the game. They’re like, yeah, that sounds fun.

And that was an opportunity for you to come to SLOW.

Come on down.

Just get…

I needed to be around.

Soul rest.

Yeah.

Encouragement.

And so yeah, a group of people came. They picked me up after the game. We stayed at some random person’s house.

And then drove all the way back for Red Oak.

Church that night, which was just. It’s funny, I was writing about it, and I remember coming and I rode with little because she had sound check.

And didn’t have my car. And so I’m sitting on the porch waiting for church to start, and, I mean, just friend after friend after friend has just come up on the porch.

And chatting with me and that.

And I just lost it. I was like, I can’t.

It was just so high on emotion at the moment that I had to.

Step away and just go sit by myself waiting for church to start and.

And then I’m in church and I can’t even sing the songs.

I’m just crying because it was.

I went from this place of just.

Tension, tension, tension to then, like, I’m home with my home church and just a crazy range of emotions and.

Yeah, scenarios and makes you appreciate Community. Yeah, makes you, you know, it makes me scratch my head when I. This may be a little bit of a rant, but a lot of Christians don’t go to church. They don’t have a high value placed on the weekly meeting, the assembling of God’s people. And the writer of Hebrews says, Don’t forsake that. Don’t forsake that. He says, you,’re gonna see some people doing this. You’re gonna have people that profess faith in Jesus that forsake assembling together. And that’s their manner of life. That’s, that’s the mode of operation. That’s how they’re living. Don’t do that. It’s going to be super important that you’re tied and knit into the body of Christ, meaning the local church.

Yep.

As the day approaches, like as, as time passes and the world becomes more hostile towards Christianity, you got, like, I know, I know a lot of people, a lot, not a few, a lot of people that There’s just no, they don’t place any value on coming to church and being with God’s people. Well, I’d rather just, I’d rather watch it on Facebook or I’d rather listen, I listen to my favorite pastor podcast. Well, come on, man. That pastor doesn’t want you doing that. He wants you to go be part of the local church.

Yeah.

Well, you come out of that world. There’s a different appreciation and value for what the local church is. And that’s what you’re feeling that.

Oh, yeah.

Cause I mean, You know, I have my church there and I had community.

There, which was great because I would.

Drive, it’s at least a 40 minute.

Drive to go be with these guys, but I would at least have a place to go and just hang out with people. But you guys here, I mean, you’re.

Equally blowing up my phone for those weeks. On the phone constantly, Marco Polos, people are sending me texts. All the time. I come for a visit. I now have a handful of letters.

I’m walking away with from summer staff.

That I’ve never even met.

And I know you guys were constantly praying. I didn’t even have to think twice about that one. So that, yeah, that was awesome.

Yeah, I have the, I guess it’s a tradition. They let you, you get to have your. Game jersey and give it away. So is it.

Yeah.

Every game you get, you can give your jersey to a fan.

No, you have. You can give away two home ones.

And four away for the season. Yeah, but.

And then whatever you’re left with at.

The end of the season, they’ll also let you keep those.

Okay. I don’t know if I can say this. If not, we can edit it out. But you gave me the one with the rainbow number on it that is now. Adorning my study as a constant reminder of. Of this whole thing. It’s just a good. It’s good. My rainbow. It’s a teeny little Jersey. You’re not a big person. No, it’s a teeny little.

I’m a 5-0 running out about 130. Small person.

A solid muscle, though. A Dynamite package.

Yeah, that’s a good.

I’ve got that in there, and I’m actually overhauling and remodeling all that, and I’m real excited. He just gave me a Tennessee Jersey, so put that up in there, too. And then I have tux Jersey in there. But that rainbow numbered Jersey, that’s gonna, that’s got a special place for me. And I think, you know, just a good reminder of the strength that we draw from the, the fellowship and Community that comes from the body of Christ. That’s what you experience through that, because it, it countered. Everything that you were going through. And, man, it was. I read a lot of that stuff, and it’s just like venomous hatred. But it’s also, you know, you’re in the middle. You’re in the strainer with the water coming over your head. But from the outside, I’m going, these people are idiots. Like, some of the comments I’m reading.

Well, this person’s not even.

That doesn’t even make sense.

These are people, you know, it’s just foolishness.

Look back now. Yeah, I can read it all day and it will not bother.

Doesn’t bother.

Yeah, it does not. I don’t. I was telling Zach maybe this. Just a couple of days ago. I’m like, Zach, one of the biggest things I learned was when it first happened, it got to me so much, and now I do not care. Yeah, I don’t care.

That’s the Lord growing you and, and giving you the, I think, I think it’s important that you, because by not caring, and I don’t care, I say this all the time, like, I don’t care what people think of me, but at the same time, we want to.

Be sensitive to Ministry opportunities or, like.

I don’t, like, there might be somebody that I could have I could cultivate a friendship or relationship with and be able to speak truth and love and hope into their life. But they’re hostile to the gospel. They’re hostile to my worldview. Finding that balance of I don’t care what they think about me in the sense that for my own preservation, I don’t care.

It’s not gonna, it won’t affect me.

Yeah, right.

That’s right.

I care for this person. I don’t care what they think about me. And I want them to know the truth and know the love that comes from knowing Jesus.

But.

It wasn’t over. You weren’t out of the wood. You get done with that. And I remember having conversations during that, some of those you alluded to were like, Hey, this is going to pass. This is a season. Even if you have to stay, because at one point it looked like you might have an out mid-season to get a trade. But it’s like, if the Lord keeps you here, this is going to be over sooner rather than later, and you’re going to be out of this, and God’s going to have grown you, and then use this the rest of your life. The rest of your life is going to be a platform for ministry, encourage people. But when you get back from the Louisville trip, you come to Red Oak on Sunday night, you have good fellowship with all of us and your faith family. But then you go back, you gotta.

Go right back to it.

Yeah.

I was in town for like 24 hours.

Little was like, I’ll drive you back to the airport. And I remember that whole ride just hating it.

We were talking the whole time, but.

I was just sad. I knew what I was going back to.

I didn’t want to go back to.

It, but, you know, I had to. It was my job, and it’s where.

The Lord had me for the year. And so, yeah, I go back, just.

Going to practice every day, just trying to grind it out and keep my.

Head down and got to come. You know, we had a week off in June, had a week off in July. Both those weeks, he got to come back.

For a week and just spend time here again. One of the.

I mean, you could put this in or maybe not.

I don’t know.

But, you know, we had a game.

July 1st, and we were very down on players. We only had five subs, and you can sub up to five people in a game.

So even if you have four roster.

For a game, you can’t sub everybody.

And so I knew I was gonna.

Be the fifth sub. And if we were up, I was gonna be. We call it time waster. So we’re up at home.

It’s July 1st, the day after Pride.

Month, and I get put in with two minutes left in the game, and I get the ball twice, complete two passes, and then they score on us with, I don’t know, less than a minute left. And I remember again now getting messages.

It’s your fault.

Yeah, just people being dumb. Being dumb and trying to pick at.

Me and hey, this is why we lost the game. You guys put the homophobe on the field the day after Pride Month ended. This is so annoying. Yeah.

Like these people don’t even know me.

Yeah.

That’s the thing. They don’t know you.

Yeah.

And so, We go through the whole month of July. I come here for a week and.

I remember getting a phone call while.

I was here from this woman who works for Stonewall.

It’s like a big and I don’t.

Know exactly what their title is, but.

They do inclusion workshops. And so I get a phone call.

Consulting of some sort. As far as like inclusion workshops, as far as they coach y’all on how to be inclusive.

Yeah, and they work with sports organizations. They work with corporations. And it’s global. Like, this woman is not from America. She’s from England.

And so I get a phone call and she said, Hey, I’m flying over in August.

We’re gonna do a two-day workshop with the team.

And the club, they weren’t doing it.

Because of what happened. They had already planned to do this. It was always in the books. For this to happen this year. And so they planned it for the first week in August. And she was like, I’m just kind of warning you, you know, this topic’s probably gonna come up. What happened? I was like, that’s fine. We can talk about it. And.

She was great on the phone call. She was like, is there anything you need for you to feel comfortable there and safe in the room with everybody?

I was like, no, I’m good.

They love using that word safe. Do you feel safe? Yeah. Safe. And they use the word space.

Yeah.

I’m gonna create a space.

I’m sorry.

I’m sorry.

Now I’m being. It’s going to be facetious. Okay.

So I was good. So I knew it was coming.

Now I didn’t know exactly what this Workshop was gonna be, and, you know, August rolls around. And we have. It was two hours the first day, right out about two hours. And then the second day was three hours, so five hours total. And, man, I remember walking in that.

Room the first day with the May. We had just gone to Starbucks because it was post practice and we had a little bit of time to kill.

So me and May would always go get a coffee or something together and. Walk in a room, we’re laughing, we’re smiling. We sit down right in the middle and then it all just unfolded.

So when y’all walked in a room, where most players already in there, were y’all first in the room?

We were one of the first ones.

So you walk in, you’re just having a good time. You and M.A. you’re drinking your Starbucks and sit down and then people start sort of filing in and you can feel the tension. No, so when the conversation starts.

Yeah, so I don’t know if anybody knew what was gonna go down. I knew the team. We were so as a team we were gonna talk about what happened.

Like I think a week after it happened, but then we traveled, we had.

Off, we traveled again, players left.

It was very chaotic right after it happened.

So then we never sat down. Well then by the time we had.

Time it had been like a month. And I don’t know if anybody wanted to.

And at this point, I’m just kind.

Of trying to forget about what had happened.

And so we go in there, and.

I’m like, all right, these guys are gonna want to talk about this. So we sit down.

This woman talks for 10 minutes. It’s just players and just this woman. So she. She talks about Stonewall. She talks about what she does. And then they had planned for the first day’s topic to be about how to deal with conflict.

The second day was going to be team values.

And so she talks about conflict. Okay, what are stages of conflict?

What are stages of moving out of.

Conflict as a team?

And then just opens the floor.

With.

All right, well, how’s yalls team? How do you guys think you deal with conflict right now?

And everybody’s just kind of sitting there.

And I I going into these meetings.

Are like, all right, I’m just gonna sit silent and not say anything unless I’m asked question or addressed. So I’m not gonna say anything.

And then, yeah, one of the players.

Is just like, all right, well, I’m just gonna.

Throw it out there and was like, Katie posted something harmful towards the LGBTQ community. We never really talked about it and feel like we’re just all sitting in limbo and this really weird tension on.

The team because we’ve never addressed it or talked about it. And then at that point, I now have tons of teammates just kind of.

Speaking into it of just how they took it, how they took the post, how, like, their view on the post, why it was harmful, how it’s affected people, like, on the team.

And I’m just sitting there listening to all of it. I’m like, wow, a lot more people were not happy about this on my.

Team than I thought, because everybody’s chiming in.

Yeah, almost everybody’s chiming in.

And they’re all kind of saying the same thing, affirming that what the last person said.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, I get asked a question every once in a while, like one point.

I don’t. I don’t remember who it was, but I’m not gonna use names anyways.

Someone said, well, we’re all just kind of assuming.

What you believe anyways, because the only.

Thing we go off of is this pre-post you’ve never said anything since then or before then or done anything.

And so this is all we’re going off of. So we just kind of assume what you believe, and nobody’s ever asked or heard, and then they just asked what I believed.

And so I just kept it super simple and just said, well, I believe God’s created man. He’s created a woman and he intended.

Marriage to be between just one man and one woman. And that was it. And then we got into a little bit of, I say we, I stayed silent. They got into a little bit of a theological debate.

Debate what the Bible teaches because what also made it kind of tough was, you know, I have a teammate who, you know, her and her wife go.

To church and believe in the Lord and the Bible and, but would interpret the Bible differently than what we would. And so now they’re getting into debate with what they think the Bible says.

And eventually somebody shuts it down and.

Was like, let’s not put the Bible on trial. It’s not what this is about.

So when, when, like when that, and I remember all this and recapping it that evening and over the next few days, but. I’m trying to approach this like I have no recollection of any of it. I want it to be for people that are listening and don’t know any of this. When that teammate who’s a professing Christian but she’s in a gay marriage.

When.

You said that there’s a debate, are two different opposing sides now debating not including you? Or is it multiple angles attacking you?

I would be the opposing side, but.

Again, I wasn’t debating.

Right.

And so it’s more just- It was a debate, but I was the silent side.

Yeah. So it’s everybody kind of taking a different approach at how to lob a shot at you.

Yeah.

And I don’t know if it was intentional lobbing shots at you, but that’s how it’s going. But that’s how it’s going. Yeah. And so they’re just debating, well, no, this is actually what the Bible teaches and- and, you know, a decent majority in there were like, we don’t know what the Bible teaches. Just being honest.

Yeah.

And, and so eventually someone’s like, let’s just not debate the Bible anyways, because, you know, a large majority of them don’t read the Bible or believe that it’s real.

So I think, like, recapping the first day was just a lot of kind of at me, how people felt about it, why they were hurt by it.

Why it was wrong. I probably said that’s a good way to recap the first day.

Yeah. I mean, I remember at the end of the first day, you were almost not encouraged, but you were in a.

Pretty good frame of mind.

You were like, okay, that was rough. That was hard, but, yeah. But it was good. I feel like I finally got to say in the simplest terms, what I believe. And so now that’s kind of behind us. But the second day.

Yeah, I remember. Yeah, I. Yeah, I called you after, and I was going to hang out with the family afterwards, which. Which was great because we talked about Community. I could have gone home to my apartment, been by myself.

But instead I was with these guys just hanging out in community, which was really good.

But the next day, I remember, I.

Don’T know if I was texting you or somebody, but I was like, oh.

There’S no way this day is gonna. Yeah, it can’t be worse than yesterday.

Yep.

So I walk in, and now we’re sitting in a circle. So, you know, at first day, I couldn’t see everybody’s face. I would try. If someone was talking directly to me, I would try to look at them.

But I just couldn’t see everybody’s face.

Well, the second day, we’re sitting in.

A circle, so you can’t see everybody’s face. And.

I think, I don’t think the woman was gonna, she wasn’t intentionally trying to make the whole thing about me again. I think she wanted to talk about the actual topic of team values. But she did open the floor at the beginning was just like, hey, after time of reflection, people have slept on it and gotten to think about it. Does anybody have anything they want to add from yesterday? Well, I thought Camp was going to.

Get brought up the first day, and nobody ever brought it up because I knew my teammates hated Camp. And I knew a bunch of people who are Angel City fans hated Camp.

Because, like, tracking back a little bit, I don’t know, probably two, three weeks after the incident, I start catching wind that you know, I wear my snowbird.

Shirts all the time in my hats.

When I start catching wind, my teammates.

Are just getting mad that I’m wearing this stuff around, like showing up to.

Work every day in my snowbird shirt.

So I stopped wearing it because I know it’s kind of triggering them to.

Be mad at me. So even though I think it’s silly.

I’m like, all right, well, if I.

Can stop wearing this stuff and it’ll make them not mad, then I’ll do it. And so I know these guys hate camp.

Well, that’s the first thing that gets brought up on the second day.

Just, I don’t remember who it was.

But someone brought up of, yeah, I.

Kind of want to talk about this whole camp thing that she’s a part of because, you know, she works for us, she works for them. Pretty conflicting jobs.

We just don’t get why you’d want.

To be a part of both and.

How you think you can be a part of both. Kind of situation. And so then we spent the next.

Three hours talking about, okay, what is Camp? What do I do for Camp?

What do we teach at Camp?

Just everything about it. And it was kind of tough because you guys, I mean, y’all know I love, I come back every winter and.

We’Re at Camp because I love it and. So it’s stunk because they hate it and we’re just coming for it.

Yeah.

It’s kind of like I can take a whooping, a beating, ridicule, say what you want to about me, but when someone says something about somebody you love, that’s what gets you. Even, you know, last night we’re at that basketball game, and there was a point where a couple of kids and even a dad yelled some derogatory things at our team. And it wasn’t even at my daughter, but it was. But I felt my blood pressure just. Yeah.

Because you know them.

Yeah.

And if they’d have been yelling that stuff at me, it wouldn’t.

I wouldn’t even.

They could have yelled whatever they wanted or whatever. I mean, enough of it. And you start to get maybe a little bit perturbed, but. But, like, one little bit targeted at somebody you love and you get that. That gets to you. So now they’re attacking the ministry that you love and that loves you and.

Yeah.

Family to you.

And they don’t know, you know, they don’t know anything about camp. So it was a good opportunity to.

Share with them what camp is, what we teach. But it’s all based off y’all, the statement of faith page that camp has posted, which, honestly, I didn’t know existed.

Until January of last year when I signed on.

Somebody had made a comment about it. Oh, this girl works at this Camp. This is what their statement of Faith page says. So everything is based off of one sentence in that statement of Faith. You know what sentence I’m talking about?

Yeah. It has to do with sexuality and.

Marriage, where it’s listing things we believe.

The Bible teaches is sinful, and they just hate it. They hate and so they’re just coming.

For camp and they don’t know you guys.

Never been, which, like you said, I think that’s why I was getting me.

Because.

They clearly are expressing that they don’t like it. They don’t think I should be a part of it.

And again, it turns to a conversation of, okay, we’re just assuming again.

What it is that you believe.

Maybe you work there and don’t agree.

With what they teach on everything or.

Or maybe you do. And so it came down to, all right, well, like, answer it for us, yes or no.

Do you believe what, like, this Camp has as their statements of faith? And I was like, I do. I believe this is what the Bible teaches.

And there have been other conversations, too, because you know, some people, I never heard any of my teammates say this.

I just saw this with people thinking it’s a conversion type camp and in.

Reference to conversion therapy first for homosexuals.

Yeah. And people thinking that, that I’ve been brainwashed into it. And, you know, I didn’t grow up.

Going to church until I was 16.

So. You know, you gotta throw that out.

Because I wasn’t brainwashed into it.

And then I remember having a couple of conversations of why didn’t get brainwashed by Camp either? Because by the time I knew Camp.

Existed, I’d already been a Christian for.

I don’t know, two years. And then three by the time I.

Started working and.

Already had views based.

On what the Bible teaches, and so. Now you gotta throw that out too. And it never, what stunk is it.

Never really, nothing really ever got.

There’s never any closure that second day.

We, we finished, you know, we tried to and it became a conversation of, somebody made a comment and said, okay, what, like we’re debating all of this, we’re having this conversation, great, but like.

What are, what’s the next steps, what.

Are we gonna do?

About this.

Is there space for Katie to have her views and be a Christian and.

For other people to have opposite views?

And so we talked about a little bit. They had asked me what I thought.

Maybe could be next steps, and I just said something like, if I were.

To you know, say what I thought the team would want. It’d be for me to stop working at Camp, stop associating with them.

And change my views.

I was like, that’s what I am perceiving that you guys will want.

And I’m not gonna. That’s not gonna happen.

Yeah.

And, you know, a couple people were.

Like, no, we’re not trying to change your view or make you not a Christian.

The only thing that was really said.

Is just, are you willing to, I hate this phrase, are you willing to do the work?

Which means try to be open-minded.

Yes, to work, yeah, open-minded to work.

On changing your view of homosexuality. I hate that phrase. A lot because I’m like, I don’t know what else the other. I don’t know what the other work they’d be talking about is. So it did not. It didn’t end very well.

At that point.

I just, you know, you get a group of 25 girls in the same room, it’s people crying.

Emotions are running. I mean, including myself. This is strange, you know, the whole year.

I. I’m not a big cryer at all.

I’m not.

But, I mean, at least for the.

First two, three weeks, I couldn’t. I’d be going about my day. I didn’t even see anything.

And something just hit me. And I’m just sitting there crying.

I don’t know what happened. But, yeah, emotions, you just run in the room. People are upset, people are crying while talking, and I was fine. The whole meeting.

And then both days when the meetings ended. I would go in my car and Mae would come with me, sitting there with me.

She stuck up for you one time?

Yeah, the first day she spoke up and you know, Mae’s not a Christian.

But she, you know, we’ve been friends.

For seven, eight years now. Went to college all together and both.

Played in Iceland together and she just had the argument of I’ve been friends.

With her this long and I’ve seen how she’s treated everybody.

And how she still treats everybody and acts around everybody and.

She’S not saying.

You gotta follow what she follows or anything.

She’s not treating anybody differently or and.

Just saying I don’t get why she.

Can’T have her views and y’all have.

Your views and we just all be on the same team and not be hateful towards each other and if that makes sense.

Nobody really responded.

That was kind of at a time where folks were just kind of chiming in.

Sharon, yeah, the first day.

So when that second day of meetings was over, inclusion therapy or whatever they call it, that was all over. Where did you go from there? I mean, just kind of go back to work.

Yeah, so I go to my car. I’m now on the phone with my mom.

With M.A.

M.A.

Is talking for me because I can’t talk. And I remember my mom getting so mad.

It was really funny.

She was like, do I need to get on airplane and fly over there.

And tell some people off and then pack all your stuff and move you home?

I was like, I don’t know.

Maybe. Yeah.

I mean, at that point, we have very different views. Me and my mom and.

But she was not happy with how the club was handling it because.

One of their main founding core values.

Is in being inclusive.

They’re contradicting. Yeah. So my mom, it’s total hypocrisy.

And my mama say, she told me, she said, okay, maybe I don’t agree with your post.

I’m like, that’s fine. You don’t have to agree with it. But she said, I just don’t agree with how you’re being treated with all this because they’re, they saying they want to be inclusive club, but now. They’re not.

They’re not inclusive.

Yeah.

They’re inclusive as long as you agree with them, which is not what inclusivity is. It is the height of hypocrisy. It’s hypocrisy at its worst because people will say, I can’t be a Christian. I don’t want to follow Jesus because of all the hypocrisy I’ve seen. There is no more hypocritical world than.

The world of.

Progressive inclusivity and inclusion because we’re inclusive as long as you’re walking to the beat of our drum, as long as you’re adhering to our narrative, as long as you’re agreeing with what we say. As soon as you don’t agree with that, then we’re going to deal with you. That’s not inclusivity. It’s like what they’re saying is you need to agree, you need to be inclusive of our views. Yeah, but we’re not going to be inclusive of any other views. I mean, it’s asinine, like. Yeah, but the Lord grew you through. I remember having conversations with you. It’s like, I know. Can’t imagine what you’re going through, but you’re gonna look back at this and you’re gonna see how the Lord’s grown you.

Yeah.

Because I remember talking to y’all, you.

Know, because I would talk with you, Zach. It’s been through a lot. Sometimes on a phone call together, sometimes separately a lot. And I remember talking to y’all after the second day. I was like, I remember talking to you on the phone and being like.

I don’t know if I can keep doing this. This is how it’s going to be for the next two months while I got left. I don’t know if I can do this. I didn’t want to cave in a situation like that.

I’ve been saying it might just be better for me to just pack my.

Stuff and go home and I’ll deal with whatever consequences there are for the club for leaving. And I remember us, you might have.

Said it just, all right, take a few days, think about it, pray about it. And so I did. And I was definitely emotional on the phone call the first time.

And then talking with all of you guys the next week, being like, no, I’m staying. You know, the Lord’s got me here. I’m going to finish the season. I’m gonna still try to be a really great teammate, not let these gods affect my emotions and how I’m acting.

How I’m working. Can I go to practice every day? Try to find joy in it. Try to have fun.

Can I still work hard every day?

And so it was good because After that, it really did change. My mindset changed for the rest of the season where I just want to go have fun, be a good teammate still.

It was a chance for people to see a consistent Christian in that team and outsiders too.

Just trying to be a consistent Christian in that environment.

Well, we don’t know how the Lord’s.

Going to use it down the road.

You finished your time there well and God’s opened up some cool doors and opportunities. I think next year is going to be a lot more enjoyable.

I don’t want to say a better year.

God’s got a plan in every chapter of our lives. Talk a little bit about what’s next, what you got coming up.

Yes, so I, you know, I signed a two-year contract with Angel City and.

I asked before the season was over, hey, I’d like to go back over to Europe. Can we mutually agree to terminate this contract? And they said yes. And.

Originally I had wanted to maybe try playing in mainland Europe and see if 15 would pick me up in January. But I knew I had the option.

As well to go back to Iceland to play for Thróttur and reached out to those guys and they were all in real quick.

Yeah.

And so they sent an offer.

They sent me a contract a couple weeks ago. I finally signed my papers yesterday for.

Angel City to terminate the contract.

Signed the contract this morning for Thróttur.

And moving out there in February.

And now we just got to come up with a mascot.

Katie, they don’t need mascots. They don’t got them in Europe.

Katie’s laughing because I was like, man, why don’t soccer have mascots? But they don’t. And so I was, I had some great ideas for mascots, but I think they’re happy not having one.

Yeah, because they don’t, they don’t grow up with them over there. They don’t, I wish you could explain this to me.

I know, but it’s just, too fun.

To bring it in.

I wish you could have seen my teammates faces last year when I was there, when y’all sent those videos for our cup game, because you were like.

Y’All need a mascot.

And I don’t remember exactly what you said, but you gave it, like, the hammer of Thor.

Yeah, man. Iceland. Come on.

And you were just talking and talking.

And talking on this video, and my teammates are all like, this man’s crazy.

So, like.

The all the NSR listeners think the same thing.

Yeah, it was just entertaining because they’re all Icelandic and that’s not their culture at all. And now they’re listening to this mountain man in North Carolina.

Oh my gosh, they gotta be like.

Going on one of his speels about mascots.

Hey, you wait, we’re getting ready to have, I’m gonna have a couple of guests on here in the next, in the next six weeks. They’re local dudes. It’s gonna blow people’s minds when they hear these guys talk. Kilby and Greg had me send some video of some local buddies of mine, mountain guys, that thick, thick, thick, thick Southern Appalachian accent that people, even people from the South can’t understand. It’s not a Southern accent, it’s an Appalachian accent. And it’s not just an Appalachian accent, it’s a Southern Appalachian. So like, Appalachia, Pennsylvania is different than Appalachia, North Georgia, West North Carolina, East Tennessee. And it’s pretty, it’s pretty funny.

It’s funny, too.

We were talking, I remember what you’re doing. You’re like, man, my teammates, when you.

Were at La and you were here.

Visiting, you’re like, my teammates wouldn’t believe this. We were killing chickens or. I don’t remember what we were doing, but you’re like, they just, it’s a different world, the world they come out of. Even the fact that we split wood and build fires in the fire pit.

You know?

Yeah.

Stuff like that. Just.

Yeah.

Just funny teasing. Because, you know, they all know I.

Work on grounds here and literally work with firewood every single week. And they would tease me a lot. Yeah.

Because it’s so different.

It’s.

When I’m on a team playing soccer.

It’S just such a whole new world and different life then.

Well, you know, when I get to be here.

Yeah. Which is true of pretty. I mean, that’s anybody that comes here for the most part. It’s a unique. This is very unique. What do you.

What?

I’d like to end with a word. First off, everybody go follow. Spell the team you’re going to be playing for.

T. T-H-R-O-T-T-U-R.

T-H-R-O-T-T.

But it might, it might start with the letter P with a stem on.

Top, depending on if you’re looking at it in the Icelandic.

Yes, because that is how you, that letter is pronounced with the, okay, the throat.

And, I mean, people can just follow you on social media. And I would, I would encourage you. So Katie doesn’t have a huge, you don’t, you, you don’t just exhaust yourself on social media, but you got a footprint there. And that’s where I think people could encourage you. I’ve said, you know, we encouraged our people here to, hey, if you’re on Instagram, get on Instagram and encourage Katie and make it known. But that’s also how they can kind of keep up with you and your journey. Instagram is your main social media platform.

Yeah.

So it’d be cool for folks to follow you.

We’ll be following you.

What’s something you’d say you’d encourage somebody as far as You know, you’ve come through this trial now where you’ve gone through something that very few of us will ever go through as far as you have legitimately been persecuted for your faith in the West in America. People say, you know, I’ve heard so often, well, we may not be persecuted like they are in Iran or North Korea, but one day we’re going to be persecuted here and it might be a different kind of persecution. No, you have walked through now ridicule and persecution for your faith. And is there anything How would you encourage a kid that is trying to take a stand for the Lord at school and be faithful to what they know God wants them to be faithful to, or to someone who is in the workplace? Maybe they work as a medical professional, or maybe they work in a corporate setting at Starbucks or an Apple store, where there tends to be a strong liberal or Progressive worldview.

You know, I think a big part of also what was very important through all of it was we talked about somewhere, you know, I had teammates that maybe could have done this with me, but I was. They did it, and I was alone. And so I spent so much time just praying about it.

Like, my Reliance on the Lord became.

So much more because I was doing it by myself.

And then I was just, it made me think about, you know, I went.

And talked to Juju’s FCA not too.

Long ago, and I was just talking to them about the first, I think it’s like 10 verses of Psalm 35, and I think it’s 35, and it’s.

Titled, He’s Not Gonna Forsake His Saints, and it just has like good clear instruction of, Just commit to the Lord. Fret not, don’t worry about it. You know, we still put in work, but like just spending time praying to the Lord, trying not to worry about it. Spending time in His Word, reading. And.

I feel like during that time.

I was spending so much time just with the Lord constantly thinking about it, praying about it, reading about it, meditating on it.

I think that was what helped me so much.

Just get through it, keeping my mind afresh of what the Lord says about me, what He’s done, the attributes of God being, you know, kind and compassionate and gracious and merciful.

I just reminding myself constantly of those attributes of him. I think in his spiritual sense that way, but, like, a practical sense.

I think that is practical. I think that the. I think the practicality of what Christ has provided for us, what the Lord’s given us, is we can meet with him daily.

Yeah.

We can drink from the truths of his word daily. That’s nourishment for our soul, you know?

Yeah, it was day in and day out.

Just constant, constant, constant.

You realize in a different way, in a heightened way, how much you need the Lord daily.

Yes.

How reliant you are on him.

Yeah.

And it’s so awesome looking back now.

On it, being like, man, he grew.

Me so much during that time and, you know, not regretting any of it.

Because he grew me a lot.

And like I said, grew me in a way that drew me closer to.

Him and Reliance on him way more than when I went to La.

And just created habits of, you know, I used to wake up sometimes early and spend time in the word and stuff.

But when that happened, it was every single morning because I needed it and. Now I love that I have that habit and I love waking up in.

The mornings now and just reading. So I don’t know, I think it’s.

Like little things, but it was, I don’t know what would have happened if it hadn’t happened.

Yeah, yeah, I think those are the two big takeaways for me. How much we need the Lord daily, time in His Word, time in reflection and meditation, and how much we need one another.

And.

And how we can go through anything.

If we have that.

And. Yeah.

Good reminders. All right.

Go.

Dragons, unicorns, tigers.

No, you can say Livy Throater.

Go. Livy Throater.

No, no, no.

The saying is Livy Throater. Or you can say alfram Throater. That means, let’s go.

Let’s go. All right, we’re pulling for you. Hey, kick some, make some goals. I know you’re, I know you’re attacking mid.

B-I-B.

Be a boss.

Let’s go.

All right.

Well, thank you, Katie. Thanks so much for taking the time to sit down. And we are going to be praying for Katie and ask all of y’all, all of our listeners to be in prayer for her. Just to, if you have a way of communicating with her, she’s easy to find on social media. Instagram, I think, is the primary platform, but she’s on all platforms. But I think most in the professional, in the world of professional athletics, I think Instagram’s the primary, the number one.

Platform, but Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all that.

So let her know you’re supporting her and she’ll be encouraged by, I want to read and just closing thoughts here. I want to read a quote from James Lindsay. James Lindsay is a sort of a voice of reason, really, when it comes to issues of social justice or where.

Do you find clarity and common sense.

When it comes to things like critical race theory, woke theory, cancel culture, woke ideology, How do you keep your wits about you? And he just speaks real candidly. He’s pretty bold guy and I don’t know a lot about his faith. I believe he’s a believer. I’ve not studied him a lot, but I have listened to several things he’s done and several things he’s put out and he’s super helpful. Listen, I feel like this sums up Katie’s situation and particularly think back to that moment where Katie spends those two days in the hot seat, literally in the hot seat. And this is, this is what’s meant.

I think, a lot of times. This is, this is what we mean.

When we talk about gaslighting. It’s like this is kind of in that category, that realm. Listen what James, James Lindsay says. The point of the struggle session displayed in all my replies is to get me to confess that the Optics are bad or that I was in some way, however tiny in the wrong. And to get me to injure my friends in the process. Of course, that’s false and wrong. Stay with me. If I lose you here in this Lindsay quote, I’m gonna give some commentary to it. The structure of a struggle session is to create outstanding amounts of psychological, emotional, and social pressure while offering what appears to be a pathway to its resolution. In this case, explaining myself. It’s the same abusive tactic that Mal used and it will not work on me. James Lindsay said that. So let me let me explain what he’s saying there and then read the quote again Basically, when Katie is put in the hot seat and the questions are pointed at her. What do you really believe about marriage? We’ve never asked you what you believe.

What do you believe?

And there’s this sort of like this open arms.

You know what?

Let’s give you a fair shake here. Let’s give you the opportunity to answer. But then the real goal is to move you to a place where you, as you hear yourself say it out loud, you’re ashamed of your position or you feel like, man, I need to just own some of this and apologize and we can move forward. It’s very manipulative. So let me read it again. The point of the struggle session, which in Katie, by the way, in Katie’s situation was that inclusion, inclusion therapy or the intervention that they brought that lady in to run. The point of the struggle session displayed in all my replies is to get me to confess that the optics are bad or that I was in some way however tiny in the wrong and to get me to injure my friends in the process. Of course that’s false and wrong. The structure of a struggle session is to create outstanding amounts of psychological, emotional and social pressure while offering what appears to be a pathway to its resolution. In this case, explaining myself. It’s the same abusive tactic Mal used and it won’t work on me. That’s what James Lindsay said.

And it didn’t work on Katie. She never once admitted to wrongdoing because she had done nothing wrong. She simply supported a man’s stance to live by biblical conviction that has nothing to do with hatred or I’m sick of hearing the word phobia. Homophobic, transphobic. I’m not scared of any of this. I’m not afraid of homosexuals. I’m not afraid of trans people. So find a new word to use. And you could lecture me on, well, phobia means and you can go into your psychological nuances, it’s all semantics. I have no fear of any man. Katie has no fear of any movement. She’s resolved to be faithful to the convictions and principles of scripture that have been played out in her life since she accepted accepted Christ as a teenager. And you’re not going to, she’s not going to capitulate and you can’t play mind games. And people that live with resolve are rooted. That resolve is rooted in scripture and biblical conviction. And I would encourage all of our listeners to live with that same kind of resolve. And maybe to do it. The one thing that was so powerful and, and yet beautiful in Katie’s Journey was she wasn’t roaring at people.

She wasn’t making She wasn’t quoting, she wasn’t going to social media and quoting, you know, right-wing ideology. She simply held the course and loved people well day to day. I think so many Christians right now are caught up in the wrong battle. It’s like we’re gonna fight for our rights. No, we don’t have to fight for anything. We need to live resolved. Daniel did not fight for anything. Daniel lived as a man who was resolved to be faithful to his Lord and he trusted that the Lord would be the one that would give him and grant him the grace and the strength and the mercy to stand firm in the face of persecution, ridicule, ideological.

Assault where Daniel was sent to the.

Babylonian University where philosophy was, and there was a brainwashing technique that would drive.

You to embrace Babylonian ideology and philosophy.

And he stayed stood firm and stood fast. And when the kingdom of Babylon fell after 70 years and in that fall, the Persian Empire came into power, Daniel was still there. He outlasted, Daniel outlasted the Babylonian Empire.

And I can tell you right now.

These activist soccer players, Katie’s faith and her faithfulness to the Lord and usefulness in ministry is going to outlast their career and their effectiveness on the social justice stage. It’s going to because she’s resolved. And this young lady who is today busting, splitting firewood and stacking it so that when students come here in a few weeks to have the first session of winter swo, think sit around a fire, be warmed in the evening through conversation about the things they’ve heard and learned. And nobody, none of them will know that an elite professional athlete made that fire a reality. Katie is simply serving the gospel in the dark, in obscurity, and Jesus speaks to that. He says, be aware, be careful if you do your works before men, because you may receive your reward before men. Well, with Katie, she is using her gifts and talents as a soccer player to honor the Lord and to live.

Faithfully and to live on mission and.

To not capitulate or yield to the world’s demands and ideologies, but to do so gently, with the wisdom and humility of a serpent, of a dove as Jesus instructed. And it’s very encouraging and challenging to me.

We don’t have to be obnoxious to.

Stand firm and to be resolved and to push back against what the world.

Wants to close in on us.

So let’s learn from Katie’s story and let’s pray for Katie and let’s live as men and women who are convicted and resolved to be faithful to Jesus. Let’s love people well. Recognizing that until people see the light, the light that is provided by the gospel, then they’re gonna, they’re gonna live in a deceived and broken state. And Jesus is still the hope of the world. In my, in my personal study, I have that rainbow numbered jersey that Katie refused to wear.

And it is now, it is literally an Ebenezer.

It is a memorial stone in my, in my personal space. That I see daily to be reminded of her boldness and of the resolve of one woman who stood literally alone for a season, held up and supported by the prayers and encouragement of God’s people, but in that struggle session, that inclusion session, she sat alone with no support and God gave her the strength she needed to stand firm as hard as it was. He’ll give you the strength you need today to stand firm and to live for Jesus and to be a loving.

Person but a person of conviction.

Thanks for listening. Excited to follow up next week with a session. If I can bring everything together, I’ll sit down with John Rouleau and we’re gonna talk about Katie’s story and give some further commentary and thoughts on it and how it helps us be aware of what’s going on today and then.

How we might respond to it and.

Apply it in our own personal lives. Thank y’all. Have an awesome week.

Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SWOutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources. And we’ll see you next week on no Sanity Required.

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part 2

In this episode, Brody sat down with Katie Cousins, a pro athlete and friend of Snowbird, to hear about her time playing soccer for Angel City. They discussed what’s coming next in her career.

While living in a liberal and progressive context, Katie had to stand firm when attacked for her Christian faith. Katie experienced conflict within her team and from soccer fans around the country on social media. This is how she trusted the Lord throughout it all. 

Believers, we need the Lord daily. And, we need community with one another. Let’s be immovable (together) in the face of adversity.

• Romans 3:13
• No Sanity Stories | Living Boldly for Christ as a Pro Athlete

view part 2 transcript

Welcome to no Sanity Required. And today we’re going to be talking with Katie Cousins. Katie Cousins is a professional soccer player and also one of Swope’s very own. And it’s going to be, I think you’ll enjoy the episode. We sat down at my kitchen table. Katie has lived with us kind of based out of our house over the last couple of years, last few years, spent her college career at the University of Tennessee, go Vols. I know that makes all the other SEC people, especially Georgia and Alabama people, mad. SEC fans are obnoxious. Maybe only second to Ohio State fans. They’re the most obnoxious and least enjoyable. I know Robbie Jax listens to this show and he’s an Ohio State fan. We love all of y’all, but we especially love Tennessee women’s soccer and Katie’s our favorite all-time Tennessee soccer player. Katie’s just signed a contract to play for the Angel City Football Club, which is the women’s Major League Soccer in America, Women’s Professional Soccer League. That’s the Los Angeles team. So it’s exciting, exciting season. I’m excited for you to listen to our conversation. And then also Katie was the thing that I thought was so helpful and insightful and that I’ve been able to watch play out in her life is the way that Katie uses that platform for the gospel.

And it’s something that we can all learn from. So I hope you’ll enjoy it. Welcome to no Sanity Required from the ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe. People that listen to, people listen to NSR. One of the things that I want them to feel like is, I think I said this to you, is I want them, I want them to feel like they’re just sitting here in my kitchen, you know? Hello, hello over there. On the other side, little pumpkin decorations.

Imaginary friends.

Mm-. Which can be disturbing.

You should have seen her doing the nose swab. She was like, oh, I’d rather get the throat swab. I’m like, nope, I’d rather do the nose swab. She was sitting there like, she had maybe halfway the little pad thing up her nose. And I’m like, Lilly, you have to go farther than that.

Wait, you did it yourself?

Yes.

Hey, so this morning… Thankfully not too far up. This morning we’re standing here in the kitchen and kids are ready for school and I said, little, you know, you got to get your COVID test today to travel to Africa. What’s that test called? It’s different than the normal PCR. I guess it’s just a more intensive lab test or whatever. But I was like, you got to get your PCR test today. She said, I know. I said, you know, I said, you know, it’s a rectal exam. She said, she spun around, she said, no, it’s not. And I said, it is. And she said, it is not. It’s a drive-thru exam. I said, I know it’s really awkward.

Through the window.

She, for just a minute, I had her going and she’s like, you’re an idiot. Anyway, all right. So are you getting excited about Africa? Katie’s going to be going, so Katie and little, the reason Katie had to go get a COVID test today is because Katie and little are going to go visit Kilby and our listeners are familiar with Kilby. That’s my oldest daughter. Kilby has been on the podcast and Greg, her husband’s been on the podcast and they are serving in East Africa. Serving with a group of people called the Lugbara. The Ugandan people group they’re working with are the Lugbara. And then they also work with a lot of Sudanese refugees and they’re from the Dinka tribe. You see the pictures of the boys in their group? That one boy, 6’9.

How tall is he? Five zero.

He’s 6’9.

About two feet taller.

I want to see a picture of that. And so all they do is play soccer. And the Bible says it’s going to be awesome. And those boys are so excited about y’all coming.

Yeah, Greg was telling me, he was like, I keep telling them that you’re coming and you play soccer and they’re really pumped. It’s gonna be fun.

It’s gonna be awesome. Those kids, it’s like this in most of the world and you’ve seen it because you’ve traveled with soccer, but people live, I mean, their whole world revolves around playing soccer. I mean, I remember when I was a little kid, I’d go to high school football games and we would, you know, there’s little footballs they throw out at halftime. The first half of the game, me and my buddies would all, this is like elementary school. We’d go behind the home stadium, home bleachers, and we’d play football with a cup, with a bunch of cups. We’d make a cup ball. We’d play football. Then at halftime, we’d figure out a way to get one of those little balls off somebody, the little teeny plastic footballs. Then we’d have that to play with. And anytime, when I was growing up, football was, American football was what everybody’s, every boy was playing around here. And if we had any downtime, we would play football. And we were, if it was bad weather, we’re inside, me and my brother would play knee football in the hall in our house. We’re just basically tackling each other up and down the hall, which usually turned into a fight.

Yeah. Oh yeah. 100% of the time. Or we play paper football. You ever play that?

Where you flick it?

Yeah.

And play that lunchtime at school.

It’s the best. So a lot of people don’t know this, but I was, Defending back to back third grade Miss Tran Thom fourth grade Miss Stamy Bethel Elementary School paper football champion Hey, you got you’re an accomplished athlete, Katie. You should appreciate Take what you can get you take what you can get not everybody not everybody from Bethel Elementary School can say that from 40 years ago. Correct, but I can I can so I’m proud of that accomplishments, you know, we’re not gonna compare athletic accomplishments and achievements, but just we’re gonna throw a couple of mine out there to start this thing off. But yeah, the way we would always play football, everywhere you go in the world, soccer’s like, it’s fun. It’s fun and it’s global.

I love it.

Russia, like anywhere in East Asia.

When I was in Iceland, a whole big group of old men would come in their lunch break to our stadium. And play for an hour. Go right back inside, change real quick, and go back to their jobs. Just because they like playing?

They just love to play. So let’s start, let’s get into how soccer became a thing for you because, you know, American kids, most American kids are gonna start off and play soccer or like T-ball, baseball, softball. Did you play, what else did you play when you were real little? Was it just soccer?

No, I, Well, I did swim team when I was in South Carolina, and then I did karate for a long time. Me and my dad did. And then I played all the other sports with my dad, but I didn’t play on a team until I moved to Virginia. So I played basketball for a long time.

Okay.

I think that was it.

Okay, so when you’re born, you’re born in South Carolina. Yeah. And then, What, how old were you when y’all moved to Virginia?

I was 10 going on 11.

Because when I met you, you were a junior or senior in high school? Junior. You just finished your junior year.

Yes, going into senior year.

And you came to Snowbird as a camper. And you were a brand new believer.

Yeah, pretty new.

Because you did not grow up as a believer in a Christian home or going to church or, Good moral family, good people, but not people of the Christian faith who Jesus was their thing.

Yeah, no, my mom was raised Jewish, so definitely not on that side, but my dad was raised in the church. So I have just a couple of small memories as a little kid going to a church and then a few memories at night reading the Bible with my dad. But other than that, not really.

Yeah.

Any memories of it?

Okay. And then you moved to, from South Carolina to Virginia when you’re 10 or 11. And at that point you’re playing. So, so walk me through your childhood. What was your childhood like? What was home like? And then what was, how much of your life revolved around playing soccer?

So started playing soccer when I was four and then I mean, I’m obviously still playing, but home life, I mean, two good parents, and then I got an older brother, younger sister, and, yeah, I mean, pretty tight-knit family that we all love each other a lot, which is awesome. But then when we moved to Virginia, I started playing. I played my whole club level, so. Probably around 8 to 18. I played two years up for just a teeny bit and then I played a year up until all of those guys graduated high school. So I played up the whole time and became pretty competitive when I’d say when I moved to Virginia. Started playing pretty competitively and at that point it was like, okay, I’m pretty good at soccer. So my parents started driving me other places and Maybe middle school really, really started getting into it. At that point, that’s when I started training a lot more. In my childhood, it’s weird you think, oh man, this person’s good at this sport. They must have grew up always playing it. But it wasn’t like that. I loved playing football with my dad and baseball.

We’d go play tennis. I love playing all the other sports too. But then probably middle school started getting really competitive and then high school definitely really competitive and in and out of youth national teams and at that point committed to college to play.

So you’re, when you say played up, so like you’re 12, you’re playing with 14 year olds.

Yes, so I, yes, so, so, Sam’s supposed to play on a U-13 team, I was playing on a U-14 team. So my last year in high school, was my first year playing with kids my age.

Oh, wow.

Which, it’s not that much different, but, yeah, but at a younger age, it was different. Yeah.

And, and kids develop at different rates and paces. And so I know I went, there was a kid, so now it’s real popular in, in, like, public school, kids will, they’ll, they’ll sit out a year.

Yeah.

In middle school so that when they get to high school, they They’re a year older in the same grade or whatever. And they’re super common now. ‘Cause it is a year of development in your adolescent years, your teen years. That’s a lot. I mean, so you’re playing up and that’s, I think two things are happening. One sounds like you’re naturally gifted. The Lord’s given you this gifting. But then it’s getting home ’cause you’re not playing. ‘Cause what happens a lot of times, you’ll see kids, I see this here in the local, Sports, guys will hold their kid back in a grade so they can play with younger kids. You know, and so now they’re dominant. Like, I know guys at our local high school here that are a year older than most of the kids in their grade. And so it gives them a little bit more. Yeah, they’re better. They look better, but really they’re not because they’re playing with younger kids. So you’re playing up, you’re doing the opposite.

Yeah.

And I find that, I find that in sports, someone who’s really legitimately good at something, when you move them up to higher levels of competition, they excel more.

Yeah, they should raise the level.

That’s right.

And playing, I know in soccer, it’s really good to train with boys. And so I, I think my first travel team, I actually played with boys. And then after that, I didn’t train that much with boys, but at a young age and at that age, that was actually really good for me in my development as well.

When you were playing with boys, did you find that they would not take you as serious or keep the ball, you know, not give you the ball, or was it, you have a pretty good experience?

To be honest, I don’t have a lot of memories of it, but when I hear my parents talk about it, I don’t think it went super great.

Yeah.

Because I was a girl and I was I think they said that I was doing really well for them. And I think that was maybe maybe not maybe a little intimidating. I don’t know.

Yeah. I remember little talking about that because little played, you know, she played on the club team and played college soccer. And I she was I remember her saying she got on this boys team. And was one of the better, one of the top two or three players on the team, but they just wouldn’t give her the ball because she’s a girl. Yep. Like, that’s boy insecurity.

Yeah. And then I, I mean, I trained with the local boys team in college a little bit, too, and they were a lot better, but my coach’s son was also on the team, and so I don’t, I don’t know if they just weren’t like that because they knew who I was, but. They were a lot better.

I remember that. I remember when you were doing that. My favorite, so I bring this story up all the time. My favorite story is when, so Katie and little, my wife, and who else was in that? It was Sean Clark. Sean, because it was co-ed thing. And then it was another lady. We didn’t know her. It was like a co-ed three on three. It was three on three. Little soccer. It was like the small goals.

Three or five.

Three or five in short field, no goalies. Like a tournament. I don’t know if it was a fundraiser or what. But anyway, it was, I don’t know, an hour from here.

Supposed to be just fun and relaxing. Not for that one guy.

Not for that guy because you were dominant. So this guy, I found out later, this guy was like, you know, he’s probably 30 years old. When he was in high school, he’s like the dominant soccer player of his little 1A high school. Then he got a beer belly and a bum knee and, still had to play pickup soccer. And then their team was, I guess, one of the better ones at this little tournament. And then Katie and little and Sean and this gal, Amy and her husband, I forget his name, but y’all were dominating their team. And what I mean by that is you were dominating this guy. And he was so mad. And he was getting so mad. And so what he starts to do, because you heard Katie say earlier, she’s five feet tall. This guy’s probably 6’1 and he’s like, you know, over 200 pounds. So he starts bullet trying to fix it.

A lot more than me. Yeah.

But you were, like, so athletic. You’re, like, leveraging his weight. You made him fall down once. It was hilarious. And so then the guy just starts playing dirty. So then we start heckling him.

Now you start heckling him.

I started heckling him, talking trash, which made it worse. I apologize for that.

Sean got mad.

And so then Sean got mad because the guy was so worked up at my heckling that he started to play. Dirty and be foul and yeah, it just intensified and oh, it’s all fun and games until the chubby washed up has been high school standout athlete with the bum knee gets mad because and at that time you had just come back from playing on the under 20 national team in the World Cup. And then when that guy, when he found out, just trying to have some fun, just having a good time. We’re all having a good time here. Yeah, so when I met you, you were going into your senior year and with soccer, your club team is much more important than your high school’s school team.

Yep.

And so you were getting recruited from your club team. By the time I met you as a finishing up your junior year, you were already committed to go play at the University of Tennessee.

Yeah, I committed August going into my sophomore year. So pretty, that’s really, really early. In women’s soccer, but I.

You knew.

Yes.

And like you said earlier, your family, and I know all of Katie’s family and just good, sweet, sweet-hearted people. And I think having that just solid support and yep, that’s what I’m gonna do. I know this is the right thing. I think your coach at Tennessee, who I know is an awesome guy, Brian’s an awesome dude, he had really cultivated and developed a relationship with you.

Yeah, it was such an important thing and we talked about last night how my, talking about tucking and recruiting and all that stuff. It’s funny my parents were like, yeah, we knew you were gonna pick Tennessee and never said anything because they wanted it to be my decision and they’ll just be there to support it and as well as my siblings too. But yeah, they were great about the whole thing and yeah, Brian’s awesome and wouldn’t change going to Tennessee at all. I could do it over.

Yeah, and you had an incredible career at Tennessee. Some accomplishments that Katie wouldn’t brag on herself, but I mean, you were named to the all SEC team multiple times, all American team twice. In the middle of your college career, you went and played, you took your red shirt of the year and played in the under 20 World Cup for the US women’s national team. So an incredible, I mean, an incredible career. If your career was over now, it would be an unbelievable resume. You finished your career in Tennessee. Women’s soccer had a great year this year.

Yeah, they were really, really fun. And they’re, I think they only lose one person.

That’s crazy.

Maybe one or two more, but yeah, they were really fun and they’re gonna be really good, I think, the next two, three years.

It was fun watching that game with you. SEC Championship.

Yeah, I was pumped up. I was so happy for them.

So fun.

Yeah.

And, but your year, I think your junior year was, y’all did really well. It was like the best season they’d.

Had in a while.

Yeah, we made it to the elite eight.

Yeah, that was, Tennessee never done that before, so that was pretty cool to be a part of that history making. And that was just a really, really fun group to play with. It was, yeah, it was great.

It was fun to watch y’all. I loved going to, I think I got to go to five games. I went to five games and then watched a lot of internet stuff. But I went to six games because I ended up going to a game your last year that I hadn’t planned on going in the last minute we went. But I loved going to those games. It was like such a, it’s a good crowd, good atmosphere, people were really behind it. And I learned a lot. I didn’t know a lot about soccer, so that was cool just learning about it. And so you came out of your senior year and at that point, you’re looking at, I remember you had an agent, you’re looking at overseas contracts and opportunities and then COVID hit. Yeah.

Yeah, I also had that calf surgery that November and it was going to take a few months to heal up. Started getting recovered and training at Tennessee with the team in their off season and finally starting to really train and get my way back to a good fitness level and then yeah COVID hit and like everyone else just kind of messed up plans which is fine. But yeah I was hoping to go somewhere like get stuff figured out in April and May that year. And then it was completely off the table.

Yeah, the whole, I mean the world stopped. Sports in the world stopped. It canceled the Olympics that year.

Yeah, and I remember being in Knoxville being like, I have no idea what to do. I had friends help me financially be able to buy food for myself and my mom was helping me to rent because I thought I would have had a job. By then playing soccer and I didn’t. And I was like, man. And then summer started up. You guys said y’all were gonna have summer. So I came there and just helped out before staff training. And I remember, okay, well, I’ll stay and help out with staff training. And then we talked and you said, come work for the summer and stayed all summer. And so that was really a blessing to be able to come that summer.

Yeah, that was summer of 20. And then help me remember. So when Katie’s in the area here, she stays with us most of the time. She stays here at our house. She’s like our sixth kid, which we love. But I’m trying to remember the fall of 20. When did things start? When did you start getting traction for your next move, which we’re getting ready to talk about, which was playing in Europe, playing on an Icelandic team?

Well, summer of 20, my agents were trying to work for me to get to Spain, and I had it lined up to go try out. It wasn’t a job, it was just a try out. But I couldn’t travel unless I had a job, so I couldn’t ever get over there. And then it was like, okay, well, I’ll just intern. And then at that point, it’s like, man, I don’t even know if I’m gonna be able to keep playing soccer.

Yeah.

Had like a, I mean, you know, a small freak out moment in the summer like, oh my gosh, this is all I’ve ever done.

Yeah, it was intense.

I don’t know if this is gonna keep going or not or what’s up. But then in January I started, I stopped working at camp to go back to Knoxville and train and drove all the way to Kansas City to do a tryout, which then got snowed out. I drove all the way back the next day and then that day Brian at Tennessee reached out to a coach in Iceland who was looking for Americans and he called me the next day and said, wanna come play? I was like, Sure.

I remember that.

Why not?

It was crazy.

Yeah.

He was like, what in the world just happened?

This is so random, but yeah, let’s do it.

And I remember you talking about the importance of, like, the The longer you were removed from the game, the less marketable you were to scouts and coaches, which is crazy to think about. But that got you back in the game. Yes. So Iceland, that wasn’t on the radar. You ended up in Iceland. I know we joked a lot about people here. I know when we thought about, and I would think about Iceland up until a few years ago, When I met somebody from there, I thought, you know, like Nordic Viking, you know, sled dog mushers and, but it’s real, like, race of race of race. Reykjavik is the big city.

Yep.

And it’s the capital. And the majority of the population of the country live in Reykjavik. Yep. And it’s a very modern European city, essentially.

Yeah.

Like London or Paris or smaller, but like in American size, if you’re in a scale, it’d probably be like Charlotte or maybe Chattanooga. Not New York or Chicago, but a big city at the same time. It’s a big, all the big city life and amenities. And soccer is king there.

Yeah, they love it. Like handball. I love handball.

Yep. Handball’s big in Scandinavian countries. In Iceland, Greenland, Scandinavian countries, Norwegian countries. That’s interesting.

Yeah, I had a girl who came to Tennessee to play from Iceland. She came for that off season that I was talking about where I went and trained with them, not in school anymore. And I remember telling her like, man, I’ll probably never go to Iceland. And here a year later, I’m moving to Iceland, which was fun. I got to play against her three times.

You did? I was gonna ask you, did you see her? Yeah. Did she stay, is she at Tennessee now?

Did she stay at Tennessee? No, she ended up going home and she plays for a really, really good program in Iceland. So she’s stayed there permanently and just plays.

Okay. But you explained to me there are a lot of people that play Division One soccer in America or Division Two or Three or NAI that will then go over there because the way the seasons coincide and overlap. Walk over there and play in the summer.

Yeah, we had three girls who came. They don’t make it for the start of the season, but they can make it after about a month and then play end of May, June, July, and then usually they’ll go back for pre-season in August, which is, it’s so great because they grow up with these girls and then they move across to the states. They get to come home and play with their friends and it helps our team out. Yeah, and it keeps them in shape.

And playing soccer so pro soccer in Iceland that’s a world that not many people know about. I definitely did not I didn’t either, but it was a fun it was a great experience.

Yeah, I had a really good time really good time love my club I really really enjoyed my team a lot. They were really fun group of girls and yeah, I just I had a really good time there.

That’s cool. And we’re gonna come back in just a minute when we finish walking through the soccer career. We’re gonna come back in a second and talk about really what the thrust of this, I want this conversation to be the last few minutes, is gospel impact, ministry platform, using your gifts and your talents for the Lord. But what is the pinnacle of women’s soccer? So what is everybody like? Like if someone’s saying, I wanna get to the top. So like in baseball, I know that in baseball, There’s the, what do they call it? The single A, double A, triple A. I’m not a big baseball guy, but I know there’s three levels. I think triple A is the big one. Yeah. I think, and then single A is the small one or vice versa, but I think that’s right. So, but your goal is to play in the major leagues. And, you know, in race car driving, the goal is to drive in the biggest, whatever, you know, when I was growing up, it was called the Winston Cup. And I think it’s now maybe the next El Camino, whatever it is. And I don’t know.

I don’t either.

But people listening know what I’m getting at. Y’all know what I’m saying. You got local tracks and then you’ve got regional circuits, but there’s the ultimate where you’re driving for the big championship. NFL football, you don’t have American football, you don’t have the same thing really. You got college and then that’s it. But in soccer, women’s and men’s soccer, there are different levels of professional soccer. A lot of times that’s regional in the world. So like in Spain, there’s multiple levels in Europe, multiple levels. What’s like, like ultimately the pinnacle of playing soccer? If you’re a professional, if you’re a woman who plays professional soccer, like this is going to be your, your job, your career. What’s the ultimate league to play in?

I say what would even top a league is playing for your country.

First off so like in international competition.

Yes playing for your country in like a World Cup or Olympics I think that would top even just playing in a league. That’s the old but then in a league I’d say between Like England has a really good league United States has a really good league the Top teams in Spain and France are really really good and Sweden has a really good league. So there’s a couple countries with some pretty good leagues.

So as an American, then it would seem getting into the American league would be the ultimate, probably the ultimate goal, unless you just wanted to play overseas.

Yeah.

But you did the overseas thing in Iceland. And so your goal was to get back here and play in the American Professional League.

At some point, yes.

At some point. And the Lord’s now opened that door. I will say this because Katie’s modest. Katie absolutely dominated that league in Iceland. I want to watch the you would send us those highlights and we would put it up on the, you know, we’d mirror it on the big TV downstairs. We’re like, watch it three or four times in a row. We’d back up the one play where you’re coming up. So you play your center midfielder is your position. So we’re going to have a lot of soccer, a lot of people listening that know soccer. So, and the center midfielder is not an offensive player, not a defensive player, a little bit of both, but it’s more the versatile utilitarian position. And so opportunities are going to be there to score, but not like a forward player, someone that’s playing that forward position.

It’s not all the time.

Sometimes, yeah, so more like a quarterback. Yeah, if you’re gonna relate it there so you’re coming up the middle like you’re coming towards the goal on the right side of the box and somebody sends the ball from behind you and you can’t you volleyed it in one motion you turn and volleyed it in yeah, bet we watched that play ten.

Times that’s a Soccer people know what I’m talking about that’s a dream shot hitting a volley like that clean is.

A good feeling and I’m not a soccer person and I was so impressed, you know, when something happens like oh You can, as an athlete, you can appreciate, like if you watch somebody do something and you don’t know anything about that sport, but you go, okay.

That was nice.

That was impressive. Yeah. I’m watching that and I’m going, oh my goodness. It’s like, that’s like Sports Center worthy. Is there a place people can see those highlights?

My phone.

Instagram or anything like that?

I think my agency posted a end.

Of the season Can we post the links to that?

Yeah, small highlight video.

Okay, we’ll post Katie’s highlight video in the episode notes. Are you on Instagram? Because I’m not, so that’s why I ask.

I am.

And people can find you on Instagram. Where else?

Twitter.

Okay, but Instagram’s the main one where they could see. Like, do you post, do you post any plays or like highlight type stuff on Instagram or is that more just personal stuff?

No, yeah, I don’t usually post my highlight stuff.

Okay, so it’s not my will link. Well, yeah, I get that. I mean, I get it, you know.

Wait, you don’t– I posted a photo of a chopping wood.

Hey, man, you’re your world’s being opened up living at Snowbird. You’re the second professional athlete that came here to– no, you’re the first. Hank is the second. You beat him here.

Yeah, I beat him here.

Yeah, you beat him here. So, yeah, we’ll put, we’ll link that highlight. That’d be fun. People enjoy watching that. But that brings us to where we are right now. So, so you get a call.

Yep.

You’re in Iceland. Mm-. I think first you got a call from a team in Spain. That team you’re playing for in Iceland, it’s not a top tier team. It’s a It’s somewhere in the middle. It’s a stepping stone basically for you and your career.

Yeah, it’s a really young club, which is crazy because the season we had really put us in that top level in Iceland. But yes, it was, I feel bad saying it about the club, knowing how much I love those guys and how much they supported me and wanted me to come back, but it really was, the plan was to go play a year. Get in shape, get seen, get back into soccer and then move on.

Okay. Yeah. And I keep saying team, but club is more, that’s what that soccer talk would be club. Yeah. Yeah. They’re, yeah, not taken away from the elite nature of what those girls do. I mean, those gals, guys and gals in that club and in that league are phenomenal athletes. But again, realistically, we’re talking about getting to the tip of the spear. If the ultimate goal would even be to play on the national team, the path, the pipeline there is to play in the most elite level. And the American women’s soccer world is as elite in the world as it gets.

Yeah, it’s up there. And it’s so cool because I live in that country. So, yeah, opportunities are there.

Yeah, it’s your homeland. It’s natural. So you get looked at from some higher level European teams. And I think if I remember this right, there would have to be like a contract buyout or something because they were coming after you in the middle of the season or something like that.

Yeah, we had, because I really, really wanted to go play in Spain internationally. And it’s great because my agent is based out of Spain, so he has connections and he found a team that was willing to offer and they sent an offer and but I was mid-season in Iceland and so the club has to release me or the Spanish team or club has to be willing to spend enough money to buy me out but I figured this would happen and I’m not mad that it happened but the club obviously said no I couldn’t go because I would miss the last third of the season for Iceland and we were on track to have a really really good year for the club Like best ever. Yeah, I mean, we made it to that. The country tournament, we made it to the finals of that, which has never happened before. Men’s or women for that club.

Wow.

And it was a big, big deal that we made it.

That’s so exciting.

And so they said no, and I figured they would, and I was like, I’m not gonna be mad about it. I get to spend three more months here and be with these guys. Just enjoying my time here while I have it.

And then at what point in those three months did things start to potentially open up for this next moon?

I think it was probably the last month. I was there. My agents were talking about this new team that’s opening up a club. Here in the States and their interest in me as a midfielder for their team. But the bulk of that didn’t really happen until back in the States.

What you got here?

Yeah.

So what’s that next move look like? What opportunities now in front of you? You’ve signed a contract.

Yep, signed a two-year contract to play for Angel City FC, which is based out of Los Angeles.

It’s the Los Angeles Pro Team.

Yep. And the NWSL. So that’s a big deal.

National Women’s Soccer League. National Women’s Soccer League. And that’s the highest level in North America you can play in.

Yeah. So yeah, brand new team. Fresh start for this club. And I say fresh start, like just brand new start for this club.

Inaugural season coming up.

Yeah. And I’m really, really excited because there’s, I don’t, I don’t know if there’s any expectations on this team or not, but in my head, I’m like, no, there’s no expectations. We’re a brand new team, but I’m hoping we just kind of go kill it.

This is a blank slate.

Yeah.

The, what is the, the men’s club is the LA Galaxy.

Yeah, there are three. Three teams.

There’s three La teams.

Yeah, there’s Galaxy la FC, which will share a stadium with them. Really nice one. And then I think a team called Chivas.

Are they in the same MLS?

Yes, they’re all in the MLS.

All three. And they’re all in La.

Yeah, it’s. I mean, it’s big population. Yeah, but, yeah, they love soccer down there. That’s another reason. Decided to play there because I think we’re going to, as the only women’s team in LA will get a good following, I think.

Man, that’s so cool. So, yeah, so that gets us to where you’re at. Now let’s talk about, I want to start into what this has looked like for you using the gifts God’s given.

You.

And the opportunities he’s provided combined with your hard work. I think it’s important that people understand There’s a couple things happening. One is you are very gifted from the Lord, so He gave you that ability. But you also worked really, really hard. You gave your life to this pursuit. And now the Lord has blessed that stewardship of the gifts He’s given you and He’s opening doors. So now we’re back to, the Lord has gifted you, you’ve used what He’s given and stewarded it well, and now God’s opening doors for you to walk through. How do you, when you look back at your journey, of course there have been, you know, there’s regrets where, man, I wish I would have been more faithful here, share the gospel there. But for the most part, what’s it look like to use your platform? Because you’ve done it really well. I’ve seen, I’ve watched it. We’ve walked this with you. I know what I was going to say a while ago. I want you to go back. Do you remember a conversation we had where you were literally questioning if you’re supposed to stay in the game of soccer?

Do you remember that? You were maybe, I want to say you’re maybe like 19 or 20, 20, 21.

It’s before I went to U-20s.

Yeah. So you’re getting ready to go play in the U-20 World Cup.

Remember it’s down there by the fire pit.

Yep. And it’s like, okay, this, but this is, I think this is the Lord giving you a credible platform that the only people that can go here are people that have the ability to go here. This morning we were talking about, it’s so admirable when somebody goes to the mission field and as the father of a missionary in a third world context, I appreciate and value that so much. But anyone who’s willing to say yes to the Great Commission can go either with an organization or there’s avenues for anybody. You cannot go play at the highest level professional soccer because you want to. Everything has to line up. The Lord has to open the doors. You have to have the ability. You have to work hard. It’s been this has been a journey that we’ve heard now goes back to when you’re like a little girl. And now you’re a grown woman and it’s been your life journey. What do you do with that? Like, like, what does it look like for you to use this platform? Because more times than not, you are, if you’re not the only believer, you’re in a tiny minority.

Yeah, I try to have the mindset of, yeah, reminding myself that, like, the way the Lord’s wired my brain in a way has helped me so much be a good soccer player, because a lot of it is you gotta be smart when you play the game, you know? And so he’s wired my brain in that way, and then. And then through conversations with you guys, just. Reminders of like, man, yeah, like he has wired me to be a really good soccer player and am I gonna use that gift or am I not gonna use that gift? And yeah, I’ve debated it a couple times now. Like it got burnt out the senior year of my high school career and went to college and was really burnt out from it and then kind of fell back in love with it and then that conversation going in the U-20s like, gosh, that was like two years after that. Also had a moment of, like, I don’t know if this is the way to go or. And then summer 2020 once again, man, I still don’t know if this is the way to go. Like, but he continued to.

The Lord continued to open up doors, and. And I really feel confident now, after being in Iceland for seven months and. Now going to LA, my whole mindset has changed so much of like, man, he really has gifted me in a lot of ways when it comes to soccer. And I’m like really, really in tune right now to use that as a gift, use it as a platform to be able to build relationships with people I won’t normally be able to have relationships with and Be in a world where Jesus is not a common thing to talk about. It’s more of a thing to bash in my world.

So in this, along the way, through those highs and lows, and there’s a few times where it’s like, oh man, maybe this is the end of it. And then the Lord would open a door and fire back up. Can you think of, maybe it’s a specific time or multiple specific stories, is there a situation or illustration, or maybe it’s more vague, How have you seen your Christian faith influence others at such an elite? We’re talking about a fraction of a percent of people in the world of soccer. This is such an elite world, but not a lot of believers. You feel like the Lord uses that to minister to people in a specific way? How have you seen God use your platform and your influence?

I think about the first example that comes to my mind because it’s pretty recent is when I was in Iceland and I lived with three other people who are all foreigners as well, two Americans and then one girl from Switzerland. And I mean, I’m not in Iceland unless I’m playing soccer probably. And so we all get to live together and we just spend a lot of time together and really get to know each other and through that, man, we had such good gospel-centered conversations because both of them, it was two of my roommates and both of them are not believers, but one of them knows a good bit about Christian faith and the girl from Switzerland didn’t really. But I can remember being up a couple of times late just having really, really good conversations with them, that’s not going to happen unless, I mean, the Lord’s provided a way for me to get over there. And then, yeah, it’s such a relational side of it with my teammates too, like having them come over to the home and being able to talk with them about what they believe in and what they’re putting their hope in and even in college and with my U20 team a lot with those guys.

Definitely that U20 team. That’s a rare, rare opportunity to be a part of that team and go to the World Cup and spend as much time as I did with those guys. We spent so much time in the hotel just hanging out and getting to know each other as people off the field. That was a really, really big opportunity because we got to start having a Bible study every night. It started with two of us and by the time we left, the whole team was coming. Now, a lot of them would just come for the social part of it, but they were still coming. And we would read right from the word and just talk about the stories that we were reading and just really, really. I had a great time doing that. And I’m hoping that that’ll be something that the Lord opens up again in La with that team, because I’m gonna be spending a lot of time. And so it is such a big relational thing and. I’m hoping that we talk about it, like telling truth and love, being able to share the gospel with these guys, but in a loving way that they still trust me and come to me with stuff.

And even though we might not agree on a lot of stuff.

Yeah, that conversation we had the other night in the car on the way to Laili’s game about There are going to be times where you have to speak the truth to not compromise the truth, but you’ve established that relationship of trust so you can say something lovingly and they don’t feel like you’re attacking them for their sexuality or their belief system or whatever. And man, I’ll go back for a second. When you were over there playing in that World Cup with the United States, under 20, the U20 national team. I remember that. I mean, we would. We would FaceTime, and you’ve got, like, a gathering of girls in your room that you’d never met any of those girls outside of soccer.

Yep.

One of them came to faith in Jesus and has continued her journey of discipleship. And I’ve had multiple conversations with her. You’ve introduced her to our family, and she’s married now, and her and her husband serving the Lord and, like. Just want people to be encouraged. You might be listening to this and you’re a school teacher, you work in a manufacturing job, or you run a small business. You’re a student, a high school student, you’re a college student, you’re whatever it is. God’s given you opportunities, gifts, and relationships and resources to just be a light in a dark place. One thing I’ll say about Katie is she is a light. Wherever she goes. And that’s something that I want our listeners to be encouraged to do and be. And you’re getting ready to go now to this. And I think probably every time you step up, it gets harder as far as gospel impact to 17, 18, and 19-year-olds. It looks different than gospel impact to average age, which is going to be 25-26 professional athlete who’s lived in this world.

Yeah, these are gonna be grown women who know what they believe in and want to do something about it. And it’s gonna be pretty contrary to the gospel.

Yeah, in your worldview. But the Lord’s gonna go with you.

I’m excited.

Yeah, who knows what stories are gonna come out of this.

I know. It’s funny, we talked about it how knowing that La was a possibility, but so was Europe. I spent so much time praying that it wouldn’t work out, but I was like, but if it does, like, all right, like, I’m gonna go and be joyful about it and. And serve in that way, and it worked out.

And let’s go.

We’re going.

Yeah.

And I’ve gotten so much. Even when I signed the contract, I was really, really nervous about it and moving to LA and the whole opportunity playing here in the States, knowing that it’s going to be pretty difficult. But, man, I’ve gotten really, really pumped for it these last few weeks. Once it gets closer.

Been training, working. See you down there running sprints on the road.

Yep.

It’s crazy. Well, everybody can follow this journey. Literally, all you gotta do is go to ESPN and follow, you know, and. And go to women’s soccer. I’m going to be. Because of Tuck’s football Journey, I’m. I bought a subscription to the athletic, which is a really good Sports journalism Outlet. And you pick your team, your sport, your team. So, you know, I’ve been following the teams that have recruited Tuck. I’m going to start following the. Angel City Football Club and exciting. So when does the season, when does training start, training camp and when are the, when will the first games be?

Preseason starts February 1st.

22.

Yes. And they, they don’t have a schedule yet, but this past year it started in April. Okay. Right at the beginning of April through the month of October and then play officer. In November and only half the teams make that.

So exciting. So follow Katie’s journey and, and root for her. And I would ask you to pray for her and pray for her impact in this, in this world, this Elite world of exceptional athletes. And, and then, and then also not just, I would ask twofold prayer, pray for Katie as, as she is a lot among within the world of professional soccer to her teammates, to club staff and coaches, but also the platform this is going to give. We talked about this to young girls. They’re going to look up to.

Yeah.

Thousands.

It’s going to be awesome. It’s going to be really great. Because I kind of got that platform in Knoxville and I loved it. It was great because I like kids and it’s such a big population over there. Yeah, it’s going to be. A really, really huge opportunity with younger girls.

So cool. I mean, there’s some, there’s some girl out there right now in La, some 8, 10, 12, maybe even an older teenager, 15, 16 year old girl doesn’t know it, but because of your faithfulness to go do this, follow this dream and use this Steward, this gifting. The Lord’s gonna give you impact and influence and this girl’s gonna come to faith in Jesus and she’s gonna take inspiration from you or there’s a girl over there who’s already following the she’s a Christian, she’s professed faith in Jesus but she’s struggling to be bold. She’s gonna see it. It’s gonna inspire and encourage her and that’s so exciting. Crazy, crazy that there’ll be a point where multiple elite athletes have come out of this house and this holler and are impacting that world while Kilby and Greg are in the dark continent, you know, with bush people. It just, the Lord is so diverse in the way he gifts and then sins, you know, I just love that. So thankful. Thanks for sitting down with me. We’re at the kitchen table. Apologize for the background noise, including the dogs and whatever else you might have heard.

And thanks for the Americana. About once a week, Katie brings me a triple tall Americano when she goes to the coffee shop. My favorite drink.

All the caffeine.

Little joke. Little joke. And then Katie always try to get me to go workout with her. I ain’t trying to run with an elite soccer player.

Trying to help him stay fit.

I’ve done some of those assault bike workout splits that you do.

I did.

Thought I was gonna have a heart attack. Half a century old, big dogs getting them going.

Love it and hate it at the same time.

That’s right. One day you’re like, Spencer likes to go running with me. I’m like, Spencer weighs a buck 40, buck 50 and is a runner. He’s a runner person. You know, he likes to go jogging for fun. I’m like, y’all enjoy it. Y’all have a ball. You go, you go get after it.

Hey, I didn’t say I enjoy it.

I do like watching.

I do it because it’s necessary.

I like to watch you do the sprint workouts on there. That’s intense.

You come hop in.

I’m just gonna sit here with my Americano. All right, thank y’all for tuning in. And thanks, Katie. Oh, man, I hope you enjoyed that. And you need to make sure, so we’ve got Katie’s highlights linked in the episode notes. And also make sure you follow the Angel City Football Club this upcoming season. It’ll be starting here in a few months, run through the summer and into the fall. And make sure you follow that. It’s going to be a lot of fun. We’re excited and it’ll be for the first time in my life, I will be a professional women’s soccer fan and I can’t wait to keep up with that. I want to do a giveaway today. I want to read a review that was left on the, let’s see, this was left on, I think, the Apple podcast platform. This is from Hannah Jordan. This was November 5th. If you’re looking for preaching that is solidly rooted in truth that champion the gospel of Christ and that will put a smile on your face while you’re being called out, convicted and emboldened to proclaim truth, then you’re at the right podcast. Thank you Snowbird for diligence of getting these materials out for all.

I’m so thankful to sit under the teaching even when I’m far away. So we’re going to send Hannah Jordan some swag. Hannah, if you’ll reach out, we will get your mailing info and send that to you and make sure that you, all of you, that you leave a review or share this on your favorite social media platform and get your name in the running for some Swo-Swag. Thanks for listening and excited about this season. I love the holidays and Christmas and New Year and everything that’s in front of us and excited for a new year of life and ministry and hope that NSR will be a part of that in your weekly routine. Thanks for support. We’ll see you next time. Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SWOutfitters.com to see all of our I’m so thankful to sit under the teaching even when I’m far away. So we’re going to send Hannah Jordan some swag. Hannah, if you’ll reach out, we will get your mailing info and send that to you and make sure that you, all of you, that you leave a review or share this on your favorite social media platform and get your name in the running for some Swo-Swag. Thanks for listening and excited about this season. I love the holidays and Christmas and New Year and everything that’s in front of us and excited for a new year of life and ministry and hope that NSR will be a part of that in your weekly routine. Thanks for support. We’ll see you next time. Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps.

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part 3

In this episode, Brody and JB sit down with Katie Cousins, professional soccer player and dear friend of the SWO family.

The conversation dives into what it’s like staying at the Holloway house, the authenticity of their family, and the hospitality that fills their home. Katie shares updates on her career, her book, and her experiences living in Iceland. Katie also opens up about the unique culture in Iceland, particularly the challenges of sharing the Gospel in a comfortable society. She reflects on her church experiences, the importance of community, and the role of faith in the everyday.

Katie also talks about her book Just Be Faithful, her journey in writing devotionals, and how she navigates the mundane moments of life with faithfulness.

• Katie’s Book – Just Be Faithful
• Living Boldly For Christ As A Pro Athlete (Part 2)

view part 3 transcript

All right, today we have Katie Cousins with us. Katie, say hello to everybody. Hello. And JB is here. Hello. So Katie’s book, we’re gonna be talking about Katie’s book later in the episode. And Katie’s wrapping up her time in the States and she’s getting ready to head back to Iceland where she’s gonna be playing. We’ll get into that. We’ll talk about that. But before we get into an update from Katie on her last year and what the next year is gonna look like, we’re going to do some more casual and fun discussion because Katie lives with, she lives in the Taj Mahal Holloway with the Holloway Nation.

The Taj Mahal Holloway.

Yes.

It’s the eighth wonder of the world. Yeah. So I don’t know, JB, let’s, I want to ask Katie some questions. You know, we did that John Rulo episode where John asked me questions. People really like that. Katie can give a glimpse into what you can give a glimpse into what the Holloway household is like.

I mean, I normally stay upstairs, though. Katie’s Brave.

I go down where the boys are.

She stays down.

What?

Katie, what is our name? What name has Laili and her friend group coined for middle school boys?

Mungus’s. We got the Mungus pack.

It’s the Mungus pack. Katie stays down. But you’re. You’re isolated.

Yeah.

You’re in the original Mungus room, which was Tuck’s room.

OG Mungus.

The OG Mungus. And you’ve spent a lot of time in my house.

Mm-.

So both of y’all have seen behind the curtain.

Yep.

I don’t know. I would love for you. I would love for you to tell people what it’s like at my house.

People ask me all the time. Really? Yes.

What do you tell them?

I don’t even know.

Yeah.

Because you can’t. Part of me is like, do you say they’re just normal people, but we are not.

You guys are normal, but then you’re not normal.

Yeah.

I don’t know. I say it’s fun. Yeah, I love living there.

Really comfy couch?

Yeah, I got a comfy couch. I always mentioned that your wife makes really good food.

She’s phenomenal.

There’s nothing I’ve ever tasted that’s bad.

Yeah.

From her. You know, living with Moses Hallways. Crazy.

It’s nuts.

Oh, Moses.

Insane.

Yeah, I don’t know.

What was Moses calling you the other day?

Oh, so we’re in the car going, we just finished soccer practice. I coached his team. And he goes, I mean out of nowhere, 911, one-shear emergency. Oh, I got kidnapped by a midget from Iceland. I was like, what? And then proceeded to have a whole conversation with the operator.

On his fake phone.

He told me, he was like, I know why 911 is 911 because of 911. And I was like, no, I don’t think.

It’s not true.

I don’t think. I think.

Before 911. Yeah. 911 20 years before.

He thought he cracked the code though.

He thought he had it. That, you know, that was the biggest aha moment in his little 12 year old brain.

Yeah.

He thought he had figured out. Our listeners, they haven’t heard from him in a long time, but they know Mo.

His voice is starting to.

Oh, his voice has been back on. I need to get him on. People will be shocked.

Yeah, it’d be fine. He won’t recognize his voice.

His voice is deeper than mine. Yeah.

Yes.

I mean, he is full-blown puberty. He’s puberty to the point. Yesterday, as we’re recording this, this would be yesterday, he, little went to wake him up. So usually our morning routine, I go wake him up at 6:45 and then little goes down there at like 6:50 to make sure he’s out of bed, which he gets up pretty good. So I didn’t go down there. I wasn’t paying attention to the time. I was reading and I realized she had just gone down the steps. She comes back up and says, Moses said that he got out of bed and walked outside and puked at some point this morning. And so she said, I told him, stay in bed, just sleep it off. So he sleeps it off, but he gets. He’s up two hours later, maybe comes upstairs. I went home. Maybe. Did we go? Were you at the house? Same time. I went home to eat. It was two days ago. I went home and got it. Oh, we were off work that day. Yeah, this was Monday. So we were following a weekend Retreat. Everybody’s gone. So I go down to, I go to take him to school at 11:30.

He wants to go to school. He’s like, I wanna go to school second half of that. He likes school. And they love him up there. Andrews Elementary School, he is the top dog.

He’s the kid.

He’s that kid. He is every teacher, every, I mean, so he’s, I mean, he’s, he’s the bull of the woods. So, We leave to go to go to school and my my truck smells like a freaking red raw red onion. It smells so bad. It smells like you took a cheeseburger that was heavy on the onion and scrubbed it in your armpit.

And then took Malachi’s socks and rubbed it there.

And took Malachi my other Mungus.

Mungus.

So we’re driving to school and I said, Mo, you ain’t put no deodorant on. He said, I forgot. I said, I pulled into Dollar General. So go get some deodorant. Okay, so he gets deodorant and puts it on and takes it to school. Yeah, Katie and Moe are like roommates, next door roommates.

It’s fun though. Malachi too.

Yeah.

Me and Malachi always play sequence.

What’s that?

It’s a board game.

Oh, I’ve never played that one.

It’s a fun board game.

And I love talking trash to him. It’s really fun.

He gets spun out.

Yeah, Malachi’s fun to mess with.

Trying to think of what people would ask about.

Yeah, I don’t know.

A lot of people ask me about you and Little. Are they as cool as they seem? Like on the stage?

Or like, you tell them no? I’m just kidding.

Oh, man, they’re a bunch of goobers.

They are, yeah.

But I’m like, yeah, it’s cool. It’s like what you see on stage is what you get at home. Which is what you want.

Yes, authenticity.

Yeah. Yeah. Or like what you get, what you might see in a setting at camp and meetings and stuff. That’s what you get in the home.

That’s good. That’s encouraging.

Yeah.

It’s encouraging for me to hear that perspective from y’all because I do. People appreciate transparency and there are enough people that are in our home that it would be, it would be so difficult for us to be living a double.

Yeah.

I mean, our house is a revolving door.

Yeah.

And it’s not just people popping in to watch a ball game. I mean, Zay came back, came to the house the other night, Monday night after basketball. You know, a bunch of snowbird people play basketball on Monday nights at a local church gym. And every Monday night he comes in, and every Wednesday night after youth, he’ll bring, he’ll bring the kids home.

Yeah.

And he just comes in and piles. He goes up on the couch and makes food, whatever, you know, whatever we have for supper, he’ll, he’ll heat up leftovers and there and they’re watching the Voice.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I want people to know, I, I had a conversation recently, and this is, we’re not, this is not about us, this episode. It’s about, we won’t talk with Katie, but we talk, we’ve talked on this podcast about how a shepherd should smell like his sheep. You know, the idea that pastors, Ministry leaders should be accessible, and we we really try to. We want our lives to be like that. And, well, I mean, there’s times, I’m not gonna lie, there’s times where it’s stressful. Like, there was one day last week, I just wanted to go home. Little wasn’t home. I just wanted to go home to an empty house and be by myself.

Yeah.

And that wasn’t an option.

Yeah.

So there’s times where it can be stressful, but you just gotta work with it. My truck becomes my Sanctuary. My truck cab, I’ll go drive somewhere up in the mountains and just sit. But I love it. I mean, I think if the Lord, that’s why I hate those church models where, and me and Rob just talked about this in the thing that you, where you interviewed us.

Yeah.

Where the pastor is on a bunch of screens on a bunch of different campuses, and it’s just crazy to me.

Yeah.

Or even, like, celebrity status Pastor, where it’s like he’s so big and, but never really with the body or, you know.

Yeah. But there’s, like, so many of us that have been in yours home and stuff that have just such a good picture.

Yeah, for sure.

Dad’s mom’s marriage. Kids growing up.

Hack is another girl on another lady on staff. But we were actually talking about that the other day, just how open yalls house always is and how appreciative we are. Because there’s been times no one knows I’m coming over and I just show up and no one bats an eyelash or an eye or anything like that.

Yeah.

We, we love that. We won’t.

Yeah.

We want people to do that. And there’s always, there’s always a funny, like, first year staff or people in the Institute.

Yeah.

They, I think they have this sense of it being off limits because it’s kind of like, that’s what’s proper in most circles. But our home is, it’s like going into a 1950s sitcom.

Yeah.

You know, it’s like always something going on.

Yeah.

In a world where everybody’s just kind of like, knows everybody and is welcome. And part of it too, I think, is I live in this little town here where literally everybody knows everybody.

Yeah.

I literally know everybody in town and vice versa.

So I remember one time I came in, it was during the summer, it was late, and a bunch of girls, my friends, were planning to sleep over with Laylee. And so I came in late and I saw a bunch of bodies on the couch laying, and I just assumed it was like, my friends. I like started like messing with one of them and like peeking up and then I realized I don’t know who this person is and it was Juju and her friends and one of them woke up and just looked at me and I was like, I’m so sorry. I like ran back to Lately’s room. I was like, they probably think I’m crazy.

There’s so many times where I come upstairs on the weekends because I’ll get up pretty early and I’m like, who are all these people laying on couches and floors? And I’m like, what?

That’s so funny that I was talking to the twins one day. We have a couple gals, a couple girls, young ladies that serve on staff here now that grew up coming to swoo. You were their counselor, right?

Yeah.

JB was there, worked with them, with their church, was their small group leader. Now they serve here. And we were talking one day. I was, it was like life Council. They were going through a family crisis. You know, their granddad had passed. Y’all know this was a month or two ago. Yeah, we’re, we were sitting on the couch. With Annabelle at my house. And everybody, the house is always loud and busy, and we’re just kind of over in the corner, sitting on the couch. And I said, and at one point we’re talking about, this is surreal to her. This is surreal because she came to Snowbird as a, as a camp kid, as a camper, as a student for several years and never met me or little. Just see us on the stage. Yeah. And it really is a, it’s got to be, to me, that’s what must be weird. It’s not weird to me that people are in our home, but to people. To then realize, oh, these really are just normal folks. Just, we’re country, we’re Southern, we’re normal. But at the same time, there’s a lot of things about us, is it not normal?

There’s definitely some things not normal.

A lot. I mean, a lot of things. It is, it’s kind of a catch-22 or not a catch-22, but like a, there’s two sides to it, ’cause normal in the sense of accessibility, but I don’t think we’re normal.

I mean, I literally just had a memory run through my head when you said not normal of, your wife in her buck boots and, like, some big jacket running through the yard with a shotgun chasing a chicken down the hill.

Yeah.

And I was just sitting at the window watching.

I was like, this is so funny.

She wanted that rooster dead.

Yeah.

And she killed it.

Yeah.

Or she killed four rats in our barn a couple, maybe a month ago and had them all laid out like trophies.

Big.

I’m talking about rats the size of, like, my size 12. And a half, like, you know, like, it’s funny. We, Katie and I are movie buddies and book buddies. So, you know, people have a book club. Katie’s like the long lost kid that. That none of my kids liked the books that I like, and Katie likes them. So we. We read. We’ve. I read all these books by this one author. They’re fiction. They’re historical fiction books. The author’s name is Louis LAmorE. And he, he wrote a series of books about a, a fictional family that settled in these mountains.

Oh, cool.

In the Nantahala Mountains.

Yeah.

In the early, early Colonial America. And I, when she was going to Iceland last year, it was when you were ready to leave last year, wasn’t it?

Yeah. I was about ready to leave. And you were like, wait, I think you like this book. I’ll buy you the first two. Yeah. And so I went over there with them. I was like, Okay, these are great.

Yeah.

Loved it.

So good. And then, so that turned into this homestay, because when Katie comes in the off season, she’s home about three months. And this homestay, we made a list of movies for listeners that care. Jeremiah Johnson.

Good.

The outlaw Josie Wales.

Good.

Tonight we’re going to watch Open Range.

Should be good.

It’s going to be awesome, because it’s got Robert Duvall. He’s my favorite character.

And we did a, I’d never seen Gladiator.

The original, yeah.

Yeah, that was good. We watched Last of the Mohicans last night.

Last of the Mohicans, which was filmed here. Did you know that?

I don’t even know what that is.

So Last of the Mohicans is a book by James Fenimore Cooper. It’s like an American literature classic. It’s about a Native American group during the French and Indian War. And the book setting is like New York, like the Adirondacks or maybe somewhere up in the northern Appalachians. But they filmed all of that movie here in western North Carolina.

That’s cool.

And so it’s cool watching it because we watched some of the scenes getting filmed when they made the most 30-year-old movie. But it’s a really good movie and the book was awesome. Yeah, we watched that the other night. It has Daniel Day-Lewis, who’s as good an actor as anybody. He’s so good.

And don’t forget about the proposal.

The proposal. That was funny.

So, so we’re me, Katie, JB here is over at my house. I mean, I don’t know. It was another one of those nights. We had a house full.

It was a bunch of people piled.

Up on the couch.

It might have been one of the football nights.

It was after a football game.

Yeah.

Like after the Super Bowl.

No, I think it was unfortunately when Notre Dame beat Georgia.

After Notre Dame beat Georgia. So I know that’s hard for you.

Yep.

Jamie’s a Die Hard Bulldog fan. Or Die Hard Bulldog.

Go dogs.

Not a fan, but an actual Bulldog. Right. You identify. Yes.

So.

So you can do that now. We’re over there at the house. I think I was scrolling through. We’re trying to find something to watch, and I went, oh, the Proposal. This is literally my favorite movie. And JB pops up, says, oh, my goodness, no way. She thought I was serious. She’s like, this is my favorite movie, too.

And immediately realized as soon as it was coming out of my I was like, he is joking.

You’re face.

I was so excited. I was like, me too. And then I was like, he is not being serious.

No, I don’t know nothing about that movie.

But rom-com.

That was funny. That was real funny.

So.

Let’S jump into JB, you got some good talking points and questions. So we’ve, I think we’ve, is this the third or fourth time we’ve sat down, Katie? We sat down before you went to LA, right?

Yes.

And then we sat down after that most difficult year when you were in LA and a lot of folks started kind of following your journey after that episode. And then last year we sat down after you had spent a year back in Iceland.

Yeah, a quick little one last year.

So now let’s get up to speed on what your last season in Iceland was like. And you’re going to go back to Iceland. There’s opportunities to play in other parts of Europe, but you just love it there. We’ll get into some of that with JB’s Talking Points, why you love Iceland. The Icelandic culture and people and teams and league and all that. So yeah, let’s just jump into it. Good on your list.

Okay. Yeah, so last time I was on, I was about to go over Iceland again, and I did. And I switched teams though, and went to like the top team that had won the league before that. So it was a pretty big shift, but it was great. I loved my team. I really liked coaching staff. We had a good year. I mean, we, in our league alone, we only lost one game and tied three times. And we still finished second place by one point. But it was a good season. We won the cup tournament, which you guys got to watch on TV.

And that was so cool.

Yeah. So that was, like, the only game y’all got to watch, which stinks that you can’t watch more, but that was a good game to catch. And then we competed in Champions League, which, if you don’t know what that is, it’s like the top teams in every European country will compete in a, like, pretty big tournament. So we’re a smaller country, so we have to play a couple games before going to the higher rounds. So we went to Holland for that and won the first one, lost the second one. So we didn’t make it through after that, but that’s kind of like a A bucket list item in the world of football.

Yeah.

So that was pretty cool to do that. But yeah, finished season there, came back home in October, been here since then. Yeah. And didn’t really want to go back to Iceland. Like I was okay with it, but I keep saying it’s like I’m torn between the two. I want to move on, but I also love it there.

Yeah.

And so waited it out in this winter transfer window. And just nothing was quite, I didn’t feel quite comfortable with the stuff that was coming up.

I think you had an offer from a team in Portugal.

And France.

Team in France.

Yeah, and just didn’t really feel that great about both of them. So I’m going back to Iceland. I’m not going back to the team I played for last year. I’m going back to the team. That I played my first two seasons with.

It’s like. It’s like close, right? It’s in the same town.

Yeah, I’ll live a mile down the street.

Okay.

From where I lived last year.

That’s what I thought. Interesting.

Decided to play my old team. Be good.

That’ll be so good. The team. The city’s called Reykjavik.

Yeah.

And it’s kind of like. It’s one of those deals where maybe like 80% of the population of the country live in or around that city, right?

Yeah, I think the population of Iceland is maybe like 400,000 and Reykjavik kind of the area around it, I think is like 280.

Okay.

And then you just have towns all around the countryside.

Did you ever hear, me and Katie were talking about this the other day. Iceland and Greenland were named.

I did know this. Settlers or colonizers or whatever would like go to Greenland because they thought it was nice and green.

Yeah, but it’s nice.

Yeah.

And Iceland is green. Some of the year.

In the summer. Yeah. It’s not currently right now. It’s not great.

But Greenland’s the colder area.

Yeah.

Yeah. We’ll get hopefully we’ll get a good summer this year. We had a bad summer last year. I think the warmest day was 60. Yeah. Even then it was windy.

I’ve been cracking up because this weather. Katie’s like, oh, this is a nice day. But for us, it’s, like, gloomy and kind of chilly. And she’s like, no, this is a beautiful day.

Yeah. It’s my last morning at work today. And I was like, this snow is awesome.

Yeah.

Sean was like, you’re gonna go work outside? I was like, yeah, I am.

I was sitting on my, in my reading spot. I slept in this morning. Me and Katie have a morning routine. I set the, I set the coffee pot for, like, 5 20. Katie gets up at 5 30. I get up at 5 30. We both get up about 5 30 and she comes right up and goes to the coffee pot. But I get up and I have a little routine ice bath, cold shower out on my back porch to air dry. And it’s really cold, you know, so by the time I go down the steps, it’s about 5 45. She’s already got her coffee and went and settled into her reading corner down in her room. So when I come down the kitchen, I’m usually by myself. I sit down with my coffee and I start reading. So, Katie. So they had caught, yesterday they called two hour delay for school this morning. Like, what the heck? Why’d they do that? I’m sitting there reading, and it had just gotten daylight. And we’ve got two huge 6-0 windows in the corner. You know, those big windows. 6-0 just means six foot, six foot windows. They’re massive.

And that’s kind of like my reading corner. But I have my back to both windows. Katie walks in and goes, have you looked outside? And I look outside, and, I mean, it is just dumping snow, and it’s already white. Everything’s covered. Oh, they’re going to school today.

Yeah. When I left for work, I usually, like, 7 30 and I just stood on the porch for, like, 10 minutes and just watched. I was like, this is so pretty. Yeah.

When I got it in, it wasn’t even raining or anything. And then I went to the bathroom, came out of the bathroom. It was raining. Then I’m sitting in my car reading, and it’s like the sleet starts to turn to snow, and then all of a sudden it’s, like, pouring down snow. Crazy.

I mean, and it dumped.

Yeah.

And now it’s all gone. Yeah.

It turned to rain this afternoon, so that’s fine.

Yeah.

It was pretty well lasted. But warmest day you had all last summer was 60.

Yeah, it was just they don’t get the same kind of weather every year. It’s just a gross summer.

What? What like the previous some two summers you were over there. Did you have some days that got warmer than that?

Yeah. The summer before that, my second year there was the best summer they’d had in like over 10 years. It was great. Now, with that being said, the warmest day was like 67.

But it was sunny.

But it was sunny and it wasn’t windy. And that’s where if you have wind, it’s always never going to feel warm. If you don’t.

It’s cloudy a lot, right?

Yeah. But that wind, because the city’s on a peninsula, so all that winds come. It’s coming right off the ocean. It’s. It’s like piercing.

You go swimming in that ocean, you go cold plunge.

I’ve done it. I don’t really do that much.

Hey, JB went cold plunging with me in little last summer.

Yeah.

In the, in the mighty Nana Halo, the upper portion of Nana Halo, where the cold water comes through the dam. That water’s like 38 degrees. We go down there and cold plunge every day.

Did you see the video last year when I was there running off the dock in my clothes?

And your friends had to think you were crazy.

Yeah. We dropped off her family at the airport. It’s 45 minute drive. And there’s, like, pools of water in the Rocks from the ocean, and one of them had a dock, and I was like, if there’s a dock, I’m going off the dock. So I figured out how to get us around there and it was someone’s house, but nobody was home. And I was like, hey, I’m just gonna run in really quick. No change of clothes or nothing. So I go to run off in my clothes, jumping, shoes on, everything. Because it was like rocks everywhere. I don’t want to cut my feet up. Yeah. And then it was so cold. It took my breath away. I got out and I ran straight to the car, took everything off, and then we just rode 40 minutes home.

What?

Oh, man. Miserable. Laylee’s like that. Katie fits so good into our family because I always joke that Laylee’s my spirit animal. I mean, she is me in so many ways. And Katie’s a lot like that. And Laylee’s, we were, last year we were going to a Virginia Tech football game and we went up a day early. We’re staying on the lake at an Airbnb. Right outside of Blacksburg and the guy took us out on a ponte. He’s like, I’m gonna go ride around. And it was cold. I mean, it was like, it was late, you know, it was up into the fall part of the season.

And.

Liley said, are there any good cliffs that people jump off of here? I mean, we’re, we’re 20 minute boat ride out there on the water from his, from the house. And he said, oh, yeah, there’s a spot over here. I always see people jumping. We, and I’m driving the pontoon at this point. He’d give me the wheel. So we’d ride over to the cliffs and Liley jumps off. These people were in shock. Like, they’re like, oh, yeah. What in the world?

But, yeah, I don’t know who Layla Holloway.

I was about to say, one thing I’ve learned is you don’t joke with Layla. I bet you won’t do this because she will.

She’ll do it. 100.

She will.

Kilby did it last week.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Going on that walk, y’all. We went on a walk through this park, and it goes by here in the valley, the river. Yeah. And there was this new rope swing. We’re like, oh, that’s cool. And Kilby made a comment of, like, how much, like, how much money or little made it or something. And so little was like, I’ll give you some money. And I was like, I’ll give you 20 bucks. It was like, done. No change of clothes, nothing. She goes off of it into that River. She was like, I didn’t think it was gonna be that cold. We’re like, kill me. It’s winter time.

We’re not on the equator.

Yeah, this is not Uganda. Yeah. And, yeah, it’s winter time in that River flowing water, and it was. Cold. But she, I mean, we gave her, like, a change of top and stuff. She wore her wet pants the rest of the, in her boots and stuff for the rest of the walk.

She’s a nut.

The whole time after, she’s like, I feel so alive. And I made some money.

That’s right.

She made some money. Yeah.

She was bragging. I came to the house later, and she was like, let me show you this video.

A bunch of money.

Yeah.

One time, me and little were, we’ve done that a lot in their lives. I mean. I, Littles jumped off so many bridges. We just pull up and literally, I shouldn’t even probably be telling this. Pull up on the, on a main highway and Littles jump off a bridge and, and I’ll pick her, you know, she’ll swim around and whatever. Come up to the road and jump in the car. And we’ve had a couple of run-ins with the law, you know, with our kids in the car.

Oh, yeah. I’ve been there one time.

The bridge over in Graham County.

Yeah.

There’s literally like no jumping off bridge by state ordinance and it’s got the law number or whatever. Littles like, if I go real quick, it was, you know, It was winter or whatever. It was fall, maybe. Nobody will ever see me. She jumps off and then pulls the police, the Graham County Sheriff. He’s like, what are you doing? One time we were in Wisconsin when Mugs and Cara, so Matt Jones, we call him Mugs, he is my executive partner at Snowbird. So Snowbird is led, the day-to-day operation is led by an executive team. Three, three people, me, Matt Jones, AKA mugs, and then Hank Parker Jr. Who’s been on this podcast. So at the time before he came here to serve, mugs was running a for-profit sports camp up in Wisconsin. What’s called. It’s like Iceland. I mean, they have warmer Summers, but he’s right up next to the Canadian border. So we went up to Lake Superior. We were up. We were up there hunting. We’d gone up there. It was like late October on a hunting trip. And I was like, I wanna see Lake Superior. So we ride up there, and there’s a marina, and all the boats are on these lifts up out of the water because the lake freezes over, but it hadn’t started to freeze yet.

But it was cold. And I said, I’m not coming all the way up here, not jumping in this lake. I’m going swimming in Lake Superior. So I. I run down this dock, but I strip down to my skivvies, you know, and I go in and. I did not know there is a restaurant on the marina and you can’t tell. It just looks like there’s buildings.

Yeah.

But, and the parking lot was on the other side of the restaurant. It was hidden. And this place, this Marina looks like a ghost town. And I’m literally doing gainers off the dock and swimming in front. And when I, when I come out of the water, finally get out. Yeah, finally get out. And, and Littles laughing. We realize literally, you can see people’s faces up against the window. They’re all looking out at these idiots from down south, you know, hey, life.

More fun that way. Yeah, I did that when I was in Cleveland, whatever Lake is right there.

Cleveland, Ohio.

Yes.

I went up.

The reason I said that is because there’s a Cleveland right down the road here.

There’s two.

There’s one in Georgia, one in Tennessee. I think that’s Eerie.

Yes. I think. And I was speaking at an event in January, just dumping snow. And same thing. I was like, I’ve never been to Great Lakes. I’m getting in. And I ran into the water, jumped in. Same thing. When I was up in, I was at the Mississippi River. In Minneapolis, and I was about to have that surgery done. And I told my trainer, I was like, yo, I’m getting in the river. And he was like, okay, so we pull over before we go to the hospital. So I jump in, I had changed clothes, changed. And then the surgeon was like, we’re gonna have to clean your leg extra gig because you just jumped in that dirty River. And I was like, sounds good. Do what you want. It was worth it.

Yeah, that’s funny. Katie, I’m always curious about, like, the culture in Iceland and, like, specifically, I guess, the culture regarding, like, Christianity. I really don’t have even a thought of, like, you know, what’s it like? Is it popular? Is it common? Is it rare? Is it hated? What’s the, what’s the deal on that?

Yeah. Their culture, when in regards to Christianity is on paper, they look like a really, really like strong Christian country. Yeah. And it’s because of their national church. So like when you’re born you get registered to church and I mean all my teammates they’ve been registered to national church. So that’s just a stat right there. But if you ask any of my teammates they’ve only been in a church maybe twice in their life. So it’s on paper a very Christian country. It is not lived out and people don’t go to church. They have everything they need in their eyes. Like so many conversations of, why don’t I don’t need Jesus because I’m good. I got my family, I have kids, I have a good job. I like living here. So it’s non-existent there.

A couple of years ago when I was in high school, we went on a mission trip to Montreal, Canada. And I remember we used to go to, like, El Salvador. And so I was like, Canada, why are we going to Canada? My youth Pastor, Jody, was like, I think it’s like 0.2% of people are Believers because it’s very similar. Like, they’re not hungry and they’re not, you know, like, they have everything that they need. And so that’s interesting. I didn’t know Iceland was like that. Yeah, the.

I was listening to a podcast. I mean, not a podcast. I was watching an interview the other day, this guy that we’ve been talking about a lot, Wes Huff, who, yeah, all of a sudden is mainstream because he was on Joe Rogan and just was phenomenal. So I’ve been kind of following his work and, and he was, he was, let’s see, he’s talking with Russell Brand. I don’t remember, I think. Russell Brand was on Wes Huffs podcast, and they asked him about his. So Russell Brand is like a former, you know, movie star or whatever. He’s a big time influential guy, culture shaper, but known as being just a complete hedonist, sex, drugs, rock and roll, addiction. And so his journey To Faith was chronicled very publicly last year, including his baptism. So he’s now a professing Christian. And it seems like it’s very legit, like this dude really made a profession of faith. I think he was married to Katie Perry.

Yeah, I was about to say.

Yeah. And just by his own description, hedonistic lifestyle, just straight sexual promiscuity, he’ll say he was living for fame and sexual promiscuity. And achieving all of that. And Wes Huff asked him, how did you get to this point of faith? And he, and he starts walking through his story. And at the Crux of it, he had a, he got married and started to really feel the need, like, like the longing to settle down with meaning and purpose in a relationship because he had just been so promiscuous. And he and his wife had, I think they have three kids, but they had a kid who was severe. Had some severe medical condition. I don’t remember what it was now, but was like possibly going to die.

Yeah.

And so Wes Huff basically turns to the conversation to, yeah, when people suffer, they’re most ripe to receive the gospel, you know, or just that. So you talk, you compare, you know, the poverty of El Salvador to the wealth of Montreal. And there’s no desperation in Montreal or in Reykjavik, Iceland, where everybody’s comfortable. They got what they need. They got more than they need.

Yeah, I think that’s why it’s so difficult. Yeah. And they, like, I’ve had conversations, too, where so many people are. I’m like, all right, so what’s, like, what’s after this? Like, all right, I know you say your purpose in life is to be a good person you want to do right by your friends and family. What’s after this? You’re like, will you just die? Yeah, I’m like you’re just good with that like just dying and going off to whatever. Yeah, I’m good with it. Yeah, yeah, I can’t do that.

Yeah, you wonder, you know, I wonder what their attitude would be with a terminal illness yous know or if they’re faced when they’re really faced with death you hear a lot of people talk about how that’s when that’s when they really when they’re faced with their own mortality they start to consider those things and But there’s that Jesus tells that story where, you know, guy, he’s so rich. And he’s got all these, he’s got a massive facility where he stores all of his, wealth was measured often not by money, but by livestock and possessions and crops and fields and land and harvests. And this guy has to build extra harvest supply houses, like grain bins and barns to put up. He’s just got so much. And, and then, you know, he makes the comment, eat, drink and be merry. He might die tomorrow.

Yeah.

But then it’s like, oh, tonight your soul’s going to be required of you. And then there’s this sobering moment where he realizes, oh, there’s so much more than what I’ve lived for. And people, people in, in Europe are so post-christian right now. I wonder what happens around the culture of death. You know, like when a person’s close to death, you know they start to consider those things. And that’s where longevity of ministry is so good for when you put roots down in a community or in a certain area. We’ve been doing ministry here for so long. I was talking with Leilie the other day, like, if God gives, I mean, I might die tomorrow, but if the Lord lets me live another 20 years, 30 years of productive life here, And then you minister here for all of your life. Our family will have had a century of ministry impact on this one community.

That’s crazy.

It’s just cool to think about. But when you do that, that’s when you’re going to come, that person that says, Eat, drink, and be merry, or I’m happy or I don’t need Jesus, there’s going to be a point where they realize something’s outside of themselves. And that might be a good transition to the church you’ve plugged into over there. You can talk a little bit about that. It’s a reminder God always raises up a faithful remnant in every culture, society, city, town. That’s what the gospel is doing, is it’s raising up a church that reaches every city and village and country. And so I think you’ve had an incredible experience with your home church in Reykjavik.

Yeah, it’s called, do you remember the name of it?

No. She goes, Schluckerschön.

It’s called Lobster Fun Baptist Church. Means Upper Room Baptist Church. Yeah. What he said. Yeah, I. It’s cool how I got plugged in there. I remember when I found out I was going to go to Iceland. I remember us, like, researching churches. But the church I went to in college also reached out, and they’re like, hey, we support this church. Oh, cool. Because they were a startup. I think they are like. I think they’re 10 years old, the churches.

And I think that when we were looking, they were only one of two churches we found.

So it was pretty easy.

Yeah. English. And in your, your church from Knoxville.

Yeah. There’s another church that’s in English. And they’re a Pentecostal Church in the city.

That might be fun.

I’ve heard some stories.

It’ll be a good time. Yeah.

Should go visit it one day, but, yeah, I got plugged in pretty quick with those guys. I really love that church a lot. It’s a very so it’s an Icelandic church. It’s in English, but I think we maybe have like four or five Icelandic families in the church and then a couple of Americans married to an Icelander in the church. Other than that, everybody else is from somewhere outside of Iceland.

Cool.

I mean, on a given Sunday, we’ll have 16 countries represented of people consistently coming. It’s pretty cool.

Yeah.

We get a lot of refugee families. So we’ve seen people come.

You said most of the refugees in Iceland are from Venezuela?

We’ve had some Venezuelan families, some Ukrainian families. We’ve had a couple of Iranian families. So we actually had a huge group of refugee families the last year and a half, or the last two years now, and we’ve had to say bye to some of them, which was pretty sad knowing what they’re going to go back to. Like, a couple of them are on hit list in their countries, and they’re having to go back. But we’ve had some families get accepted, like, two months ago, which is cool to stay. Yeah, they get to stay.

They get their residency or Social Security numbers.

They can get jobs now. They’ve been living here for two years, not had a job.

Refugee status is tough in most countries because you get to live there, but you can’t work, you can’t take up jobs or. You’re basically just on a basic minimum handout.

And so the church, like, part of the giving that goes to the church, they go get grocery cards and support these families so that they can get groceries because a lot of them have kids and.

Yeah, for sure.

So support them in that way. Yeah. Yeah, I like the church a lot. Yeah, it’s fun.

That’s cool. We were talking earlier before we started recording. About, I feel like, three big stages in your life. College, La, and then Iceland. And you mentioned how it was a priority each time to, you know, find community and find a church. And I think that’s at least the stage of life that I’m in. That’s a huge thing that I see people kind of fall away at or just not be, like, super diligent at. And so would you talk about that? Just like, the drive, like, why it’s so important. What do you look for when you’re looking for a good church home, good Community, stuff like that? Why it’s so important?

Yeah, I think. I don’t know if I was, like, looking for something specific in all those churches, but it was more of, I asked people, like, I can remember asking you about churches in Knoxville.

Yeah.

And then asking people about churches in La. Yeah. And then the church I was going to in college told me about the church in Iceland, so I just trusted. Yeah, the people I was talking to about recommendations. But, yeah, it was a priority when I went to school. Can I get plugged in immediately? One, because I like being around people. Yeah, but two, just, I think the community aspect’s so important. Yeah. Just to be able to have people you can talk to, sit under, get teaching, just being in fellowship with other Believers.

Yeah.

So College, La, all of it, I’m like, I don’t know where I would have been without.

Yeah.

Having the community around me. In all those situations.

Wait, what church did you go to in Knoxville?

It’s called severe heights.

Oh, yeah. I went to. What’s the college ministry that they have?

The walk. The walk.

I went to the walk a couple times. Yeah.

Forrest Carson Newman from that area.

It’s like 45 minutes.

Oh, cool. Yeah.

Yeah. The walk’s gotten big. Yeah. Huge. It’s gotten very big.

It’s a huge ministry. Yeah. That’s cool.

The company we’re using. To do our master development plan for camp as we start this expansion. They are members at that church and they designed and did the campus development design plan for that church. It’s a big campus.

Yeah. That’s cool.

They send a team over every year to do an English camp. That’s so fun.

Yeah. Oh, that’s so cool.

And they just invite local families in the, it’s like in a neighborhood, the churches. And so they just go around door-to-door inviting families. Yeah. Send their kids over. Yeah.

I also am curious, even just, like, in my brain, I’m picturing sort of, like, just the differences of each church, you know, like, I’m sure your church in Iceland looks way different from the church in La from the church, you know, in Knoxville, you know, like, even just worship or, like, how things look. So will you just give us a little bit of insight on that?

Yeah. The church in La was John MacArthur’s church. I remember walking there the first time. I didn’t know I was going to this church. I just knew people that were going to it and just asked my first Sunday, can I come to church with y’all?

Yeah.

So we’re walking up, and I’m like, my gosh, this is a whole village of people here.

Where are we?

Yeah. They’re like, oh, it’s. It’s called Grace. And I was like, okay. They’re like, that’s John MacArthur’s church. I was like, that explains why there’s so many people here. And it was huge. It was huge. And then I went to my church in Iceland, where we have, like, yeah, I think 30 members in the church. We’ll have, like, maybe 50 to 100 people every Sunday. And it’s so different. Yeah. And then you talk about music. Well, they have a whole Symphony there. Yeah, it’s just me and a microphone and piano for our church in Iceland. Yeah. So different. But both churches are singing, like, good biblical songs. Yeah. I know it’s completely different and a lot of people will be like, yeah, this music doesn’t fit me and stuff, but I know for me, I’m like, if you’re just singing good biblical songs and worshiping Jesus with other people, like, it’s still good.

Yeah.

And the teaching’s faithful.

Yeah. Teaching’s good. Yeah.

I’m always encouraged by, like, I remember you showing me some videos of your church in Iceland and just. So encouraged of, like, man, it just looks so different even from, like, Red Oak, but it’s just so good. And, you know, I don’t know. People get so caught up in silly things.

I appreciate that you asking that question, JB. You, you did a good job with that question when you interviewed all the college students on the college episode. It’s so important. I, and it’s important for people to understand. The value of church, fellowship and congregational membership. And a lot of people, there, there’s a lot of people that I know well that don’t believe they’ll say, well, church membership is not biblical, or you shouldn’t be tied to one church. And this is not what we’re going to get into in this episode. Maybe we’ll do an episode about that later, but it’s just not true. And you see the the fellowship and community of the church working together in the book of Acts. And then also in Hebrews 10, that verse that says, Don’t forsake the assembling of yourselves together, as the manner of some is. It’s a command and instruction in scripture to meet with God’s people in worship. So yeah, I appreciate you shedding or shining a light on that, because it’s something that people, I think, need to be aware of. I’m not of the opinion that when you go on family vacation, you need to find a church on that Sunday.

I know a lot of people do. When we go on family vacation.

Our.

Family vacation looks different than most. Ours is typically in a secluded, isolated place with nobody except Hallaways, you know? Because what we were saying earlier, we live such an open book life. So typically when we travel and go somewhere, we don’t go to church on this. But other than that, church is priority. For most people, it’s not priority. When it’s convenient, we go.

Yeah.

Which is why I appreciate Red Oak. If I plug and shout out our church, Red Oak, I’d love that. The faithfulness of that community of Believers. And it’s just, it’s pretty consistent. There’s a high value place. Don’t come together to worship each week.

I legit will plan trips. And when I come home, when I leave, so I can be at church on Red Oak.

Yes.

Like this weekend, when they’re like, when are you coming? Because they wanted me there two weeks ago. I was like, I can’t go back until Monday the 24th. I was like, I got stuff to do. They’re like, okay, I’ll get a red oak.

Hey, I get to preach this Sunday. I typically preach the first Sunday of the month, but February got jumbled and switched around. And we are in a survey series of Job. And I get to preach. I didn’t ask Joseph for this, but I got assigned one of my favorite passages passages of scripture in the whole Bible. It’s that four chapter stretch where God speaks to Job out of the Whirlwind. Three chapters, 39-40-41, which says, brace yourself like a man. And he answers him out of the Whirlwind. And then God just goes on this, like, Declaration of his authority and sovereignty. It’s one of my favorite passages. I read it out loud this morning. I was like, everything to this point has been a survey because we’ve done huge chunks. I was like, I need to read all three of these chapters, almost four chapters. So I read it this morning and it took 10 minutes. So I’m starting by reading the whole thing Sunday night, and then I can’t wait.

Now again, I’ve got.

I’m gonna. I’m gonna spend 25 minutes unpacking it. 20 to 25 minutes unpacking it. I’m stoked. Anyway, it’ll be your last Sunday. I’m glad you get to stay.

Yeah, me too. And then back to Lofsdalen fun.

We heart red oak.

In Iceland we say, Ielskítir.

I’ve learned some Icelandic.

Yeah.

Ready? Nay. That means no.

I was gonna guess that meant no.

I say that all the time still.

I know. I started picking it up from you. What’s yes?

Yá? Yá? Yá? Nay.

And that’s it. Nay.

Katie always says, yo, start saying.

Yeah.

Okay, so I kind of want to talk to you about your time here in the states. What is it, like three months, four months that you’re here?

I’ve had almost four and a half months this time. It’s never the same.

Yeah. Yeah.

This is the longest time I’ve had at home.

Yeah, but I know that that can be. Sometimes hard even sometimes when I go home on the weekends, you know, just gearing back up to go back to work or, you know, go back to Iceland. I know that’s a silly analogy that I just used, but I kind of want to just hear about, like, your thoughts about going back. What, like, you’ve been in prayer about how can, like, we be praying for you, gearing back up to go just stuff like that, leaving, leaving this community. Going to a good community still, but just different and might be harder in some areas. So just stuff like that.

Yeah, I think this year is pretty bittersweet because, you know, I love being here. Yeah, it is home. But I am very excited to go back to Iceland because I do have. It’s like a second home now. Yeah. Been there three years. Previous years has been different because it never felt like a second home. So I was pretty sad to leave. I can remember leaving two years ago and I think I cried the first 24 hours. I was like, what am I doing? Why did I leave again? Like. But this year, like, I’m gonna be sad for sure, but I am very excited to go back. But it’s. It’s always so nice to come back home after a long season and just not do any working out or anything for at least two, three weeks and just be here, just be with people, go see my parents, travel around a little bit, and.

And then settle into the Taj Mahal away. And we eat copious amounts of ice cream.

Yes.

Me and Katie have consumed because Greg and Kilby were here. They don’t stay with us.

This has been the worst winter I’ve had.

This has been, it’s the first winter I ever remember gaining weight. Like I’ve actually gained, it’s ice cream weight.

Ice cream weight.

It’s a thing. I’m glad it is. And so, but it’s been so fun.

It’s been so fun. But me and Katie were talking, you know, the days are finally starting to get a little bit longer. Hopefully it’s going to start warming up.

Yeah.

And I’m gonna start. I’ve already kind of made the commitment to scale it back and get back in some sort of semblance of decent physical condition.

We’ll have one last go on Sunday night.

Yes, we will.

One last go on Sunday night.

Choose what we’re gonna get. I’m voting Tillamook.

That orange cream one?

No.

Something else.

Not that flavor. That’s been good. But Tillamook as a brand, because they use Tillamook. When they make their ice cream, they use cream, not just whole milk. They use, like, heavy cream.

Interesting.

That’s good.

Milk fat. That’s wonderful.

Yeah, but it’s always very nice to come home and just do stuff like that. Yeah. I don’t really have to worry about, like, what I’m eating and all that kind of stuff. And it’s just nice to, you know, that church there. I said it like, I do worship and stuff there every Sunday. I can. It’s so nice to come home and. Be in the congregation. Like, that’s a big change. So it’s just.

And because you play the piano and sing there and you’re not. I mean, that’s still fairly new. Like, you’re not an expert piano player, so it’s.

No, I still think I’m a bad piano player.

Yeah.

People work hard at that. I mean, I can’t imagine the stress of that.

Yeah, I. I am not. I taught myself how to play piano so I know all the chords, and I can keep it beat and sing. Yeah. And that’s it. And I haven’t got any better at it. And so every Sunday, I’m still, like, stressed out because I don’t want to mess it up because I’m the only person doing it.

That’s crazy.

So if I mess up, everybody else is messing up with me and, like, staring at me.

When you’re, like, when you’re here, what are they doing? They play a CD or they not have music? Is it acapella?

A lot of times I do Spotify.

Okay.

Yeah. When I first got there, they had two ways doing acapella, and that’s when I was like, hey, I’m learning chords. I can just play the chords and you at least have something to sing to.

That’s bold.

Yeah. So I basically was learning it on Sundays doing that’s crazy.

I remember you would send video or audio. Hey, check this out. How bad is this?

Because then after a couple weeks of doing that, the lady that was singing was like, hey, I’m leaving the country for the next couple weeks. Can you sing as well? And I was like, sure.

Do I have a choice?

See how I get it? So I’ve done that the last couple years, but it’s nice to come home and just worship here at Red Oak and the full band and a lot of people, and it’s just different. It’s just really nice.

Yeah, I think that a lot, even about little, because she does worship all the time for Snowbird and for. Yeah, Red Oak. And so I’ll think that. I’m like, man, wonder if she ever misses, you know, just being a part of the congregation and.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s very rare that she gets to, but she does enjoy it.

Yeah.

It was a couple weeks ago.

She didn’t do it. Yeah.

She asked Donovan, this was at church. And so she could just hold the grandbaby and be with Kilby.

Yeah.

Laila, she’s right back there between Kilby Laila and Juju. Yeah. And yeah.

Yeah. Anytime I can there, like, I will say I do love doing it. Yeah. It’s so, I really enjoy it. So anytime I can on Sundays there, I’m like, yeah, I’ll do music. I’ll do music. Because I can’t do it every Sunday. Sometimes I can’t go to church.

Yeah, it goes back to it. It’s. It adds one more layer to that point we were making about how important, like, you know, when I was saying, I appreciate JB bringing up the importance of finding a church and plugging in, not just finding a church and. And attending three out of four Sundays and kind of walking in, sitting down, walking out.

Yeah.

To the fullest of my capabilities. I want to plug in here and be a part of what’s going on. That’s a word for people that I would challenge all of our listeners. Get involved in your church. There’s something you can do to be involved. Don’t be a consumer. Don’t just be a consumer and a critic. The two c words, people, when people come to church, they’re either consumers or critics or both. Like they criticize the sermon or they criticize the music or they critic, you they’re just critical or they just consume. I just want to come in, get my coffee, sit down, and I want to get there late, so. But I want to get on the back row. But everybody fights for the back row, you know, like, just get out of that mindset, be a part of it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

One of the things I love that we do is we’re almost getting to the point where it’s becoming tough now, but we have a meal after our services over there. Cool.

So we’ll meet small enough crowd.

You can have a small enough crowd, and we get a lot of tourists. What do y’all I mean, we eat all kind of stuff. Basically, there’s like a rotation of families all from different countries. And when they’re up, they just make food from their country. So there’s no telling what you’re gonna get on a Sunday. And it’s always so good.

Iranian food. What was that like? What was that? What are they.

I don’t even remember. But, yeah, we’ve been all kind of stuff.

Yeah.

And.

But it’s cool because we get a lot of tourists and we’ll announce it at the end of every Sunday, like, hey, we’re gonna have a meal outside. Hang out.

Yeah.

It’s so fun.

Is it outside? Outside?

Inside.

It’s just in, like, the next room or something.

Yeah, it’s in, like, our Lobby area also has a bunch of tables in the kitchen and stuff.

So what is, what is the Icelandic diet? We’ve, we’ve talked about this a little bit, but not a lot. Like, what do they, they eat a lot of fish, don’t they?

A lot of fish. Lamb.

They eat a lot of lamb because there’s sheep herding on the island. Or the island. It’s not. Is it an island?

It’s not. It’s a big island.

Yeah, it’s a huge island. Yeah, it’s an island Nation.

Yeah. Sheperd everywhere. I mean, it’s not much different from here.

Okay.

They got McDonald’s.

No, McDonald’s. Oh, wow.

They got green beans, but they don’t put no bacon in them. So you can’t get pork. They don’t know what sausage and bacon.

Yeah, you can get bacon.

You said that. But what you were. You can’t get sausage. I was about to say, that’s what they don’t know. What they don’t know what sausage is.

Those people packed up all over sausage.

I know. I’m thinking about taking some.

Hey, we just butchered a hog, and we’ve been eating. That sauce is good, ain’t it? That pig we just killed. Oh, my gosh.

It’s good. So they don’t have that, so I need to.

That’s sad.

Maybe figure out a way to get some over there.

I’m big on the pig.

Big on the pig.

I’m big on the pig.

Kind of also jumping back to, like, serving in the church. I feel like there’s something to say about even using Katie as an example. Like, she’s not fully comfortable, you know, like, playing, like. It’s not something she’s done forever. So I think even that, I think sometimes people can stray away and be like, well, I don’t know how to do it, or I’m not comfortable serving or whatever, but I’m encouraged by that of, like, you know, you’re serving not to flex your abilities to play the piano or, like, your voice, but to serve and to worship and to provide for others. So I think that’s really cool.

Yeah, there’s been so many times where I totally butchered I mean, one time, in Christ Alone song, there’s four verses. I switched two and three, and everybody else was singing something else. When I have the microphone, I start singing. I’m like, I’m not singing the same thing as everybody else. So I backed up and I started laughing so hard. But they’re all pretty great. Like, they just kept going. Yeah. So many things like that.

Yeah.

I rarely go a Sunday without messing something up.

Part of it. Okay. Katie is a published author, and I want to hear more about your book. What is it? Just be faithful.

It’s called just be faithful.

Yes. Available on Amazon.

Amazon.

And in the snack Shack.

Yeah. I think they’re trying to get it onto the. The website.

I think it might be already, but I’ll double check that.

Yeah, I wrote a book. When I came home from LA that winter, this woman, Susan Greenwood, convinced me to write a book. She was like, Hey, you should write a book about your experience in LA. I was like, well, I’m not a writer at all. I literally chose a major so that I didn’t have to write papers. She was like, what about a devotional style book? It’s shorter stuff. And I was like, All right, I’ll give it a go. So spent the next eight months. Writing. It was. It was pretty cool. Like, it was good to just go through some stuff, too. Like, writing it. It’s also very challenging because after about 20 entries, I was like, I’m. I’m done writing. Yeah, but I still had to write, like, 10 more. Yeah. So that was challenging, but it’s out.

That’s crazy.

Yeah.

Already did my forward. That was cool. I’ve gotten good feedback on it. Yeah, it’s called just be faithful because I feel like that was. I’ve heard it a bunch before the whole La thing, but, you know, in my own head, that’s what I was telling myself all the time. But I’m also hearing it from so many people here over there, like, all right, like, just every day, just plug away and just be faithful. Like, just keep your, like, mind fixed on that to just be faithful to Jesus today. Whether you have a good day or bad day, can you just be faithful today?

Yeah.

I love that. I love it so much because we’ve tried to pare down. I want to quiz y’all just a little bit here. We’ve tried to pare down the Christian life at Swoope into a few phrases that will stick in people’s heads. One of them is just be faithful. Can you think of any other ones?

Take a day off, get eaten by the lion. Keep your hands to the plow.

Those are the two big ones. And it’s that, and every one of those carries a simple but life-changing, it’s like a mantra. Take a day off, get eaten by a lion. It comes from a story in the Old Testament where this guy is so faithful, and then just one day he just decides to be disobedient and do what he wants to do, and it cost him his life. And the idea is there’s no days off in the Christian life. And then hand to the plow, keep your hand on the plow. Jesus said, no man who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God. So just keep your hand on the plow and keep plowing, plow on, plow on. I sign off my emails and letters, plow on, or I’ll sign it off, hand to the plow. So I do like coming, narrowing things down to simple, single little phrases that encapsulate a massive mindset to the Christian life. In every day, in every situation, you can be faithful, faithful to the Lord, faithful to your calling. And that summed up your, your time in La, which, you know, I’d encourage people, Jeby, maybe, maybe let’s link that episode.

Yeah, I was thinking that post La episode for sure.

Yeah.

In the show notes to this episode.

That’S kind of when me and Katie were planning questions and topics to talk about. I was asking her, I told her, I was like, I kind of don’t like the question, you know, what is the Lord teaching you right now? Like, sometimes that’s a bit overwhelming or, like. But we were just started talking, and she was like, I just kind of feel like I’m, you know, kind of in the mundane. Like, you know, I’m not. I don’t feel like I’m in a crazy season of growth or not that I’m walking away or anything. And then we just kind of started talking. Like, that’s. That is the Christian life, though, you know, like, there. There’s going to be seasons of La where you know, every day you’re struggling and having to remind yourself, and it’s hard. And then obviously, Katie has grown so much from that. And then there’s Seasons where it’s this, where it’s like, yeah, it’s good, but it’s just, you know, I still have to be faithful, but it’s not like there’s anything crazy happening or, you know, but it’s just that mundane life, like, day in, day out, just being faithful.

You know, sometimes it’s harder to be faithful in those Seasons.

Oh, yeah.

Because it’s not such a dynamic thing, which is. You know, in Revelation when Jesus is speaking to the churches, and I think it’s the church at Laodicea where he says, you’re neither hot nor cold, you’re lukewarm. That’s that being faithful in the mundane is what keeps you from being lukewarm. And Tuck’s got that tattoo. I think it’s on his thigh. It says highs and lows. I think that’s from a song.

It is. I love that song.

Well, I don’t know if I know that song. I’m sure I did. What I’ve heard that song. Is it one we sing here?

We don’t sing it here, but I think little likes it too. You’ve probably heard it.

Then I probably would have heard it.

It’s an older song.

I always, so this is just the way my brain works. Highs and lows. And we talk about this. I talked about this a lot in this Philippian study we just did in winter slow. Ebb and flow, highs and lows. Most of your life is lived in the and.

Yeah.

Highs and lows. And if you, if you’re graphing High point, low point. You’re looking at a chart or a graph and you’re taking a pen and you’re drawing a high point on a graph and then a low point and then a high point and then a low point. That’s the Christian life. That baseline through the middle is the and. Yeah, that’s where most of your life is going to be lived. That’s probably the hardest place to be really faithful and not grow cold. Because when you’re in the highs, you’re just so on fire for Jesus. And when you’re in the lows, it’s that that Crucible of suffering we talked about. And I think something I appreciate about Katie, about your walk is La. It’s easy to look back at that and go, oh, I see how the Lord was growing you. But a season of life where you go, yeah, I’m just kind of in a holding pattern or I’m just. It’s. There’s nothing crazy going on. Being faithful then can be harder sometimes, I think.

Yeah, I’d agree.

I, after we talked about that, I went in. I remember, like, I say I’m not a rider, but I do like just writing my thoughts and stuff down sometimes. Yeah. I was like, I think I wrote something in December talking about this, and I went and found it, and it was, it was almost at a point where it was like, what am I doing right now? But it was, and then just quickly reminding myself, like, well, it’s just not like a crazy. Time of my life right now, but can I just keep staying in the word, keep spending time in prayer, like just staying faithful?

Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.

Yeah, it is.

Do you have any plans for the future? Do you get that question a lot?

Yeah, we’ve talked about it. I get that question especially every year I come back and I’ve put another year. I get that question so much and I’ve had it. I’ve had it a lot this year. And I just tell everybody, I’m like, I don’t know, because I have played soccer since I was four. That’s all I’ve ever done. Yeah. Is play soccer. So I’m not sure. Yep.

To be announced.

Speaker 3
Yeah.

To be decided.

Hopefully we’ll be able to keep playing for a couple more years. That would be awesome. Yeah.

Well, I can tell you when the career ends, she will have a job as well.

I was about to say that.

And it will not be just stuck in firewood. Katie works when she’s here.

She.

She works part a little more than part-time I don’t want to say part-time but you don’t work all day, every day. But you put in a good bit of hours just doing work on our grounds crew. She enjoys it. I think you really enjoy that. But, yeah, we’ll put her to work. We got as long as she wants to be here. If the Lord doesn’t move her somewhere else.

Yeah.

Yes. We’ll see.

Yep.

It’ll definitely be a big life change. Yeah, when I’m done. I know I’ll be good and stuff. Yeah. But it’s gonna be a big life change for sure.

Yeah, it will. Tuck has talked about when his football career ends opening up with a buddy that he’s got a couple buddies. One plays at Michigan, has a national championship ring. One’s now at Chapel Hill. He just transferred from a Big 10 school. He’s gonna go play for Belichick. In Chapel Hill, but they’ve talked about opening a facility somewhere between here, maybe like around Waynesville.

Yeah.

That would be a legitimate training facility for, for up and coming athletes because there’s nothing really like that here.

Yeah, that’d be cool.

That’d be cool. You definitely. Yeah.

I want to stay on that. I definitely want to stay around soccer somehow because I, I mean, I love it. Playing it, watching it, getting that coach most team. Like, it was fun.

You’re here for, you’re here for just enough time to do four or five Mondays of instruction with those kids. And it’s so fun making the most of your time. And it could be cool if you’re here doing that long term.

Yeah. Giving them a different style of coaching.

Yeah.

Yeah.

‘Cause little community like this, very few people ever played soccer. So, you know, kids, you’re just trying to keep them active and be fun to see them get instructed.

Well, we’re gonna miss Katie. I’m gonna miss Katie.

Oh, last thing. Yeah, we have. Katie and I have a plan for August of 2026.

Yes. Let’s go. Okay, so it was the plan for August 2025 until this morning. And I realized we missed the date.

We missed the draw date.

So reindeer hunting in Iceland.

Reindeer. They look like, for people listening. Reindeer look very similar to caribou. So they’re a, they’re a hooved animal.

Like a, this might be stupid, but reindeer are real.

They’re real. Yes, ma’am. I know it. That’s why I said they look like caribou, because people, a lot of times people go, wait, reindeer real? So it’s like in Siberia, there are massive reindeer farms where people heard the things.

I thought they were fixing a little.

Bit of the reindeer.

No, they’re real. JB a dummy.

Look, I’m gonna look it up.

I’m like, but can they fly? And like, do they carry?

Okay, so, okay, now you’re asking dumb questions.

This is when you enter into the Mungus category. So the plan is to do it was this year’s plan. You know, I really want them to come to Iceland. So I’m like, man, I got to find something besides myself to entice them over to Iceland. So hunting, of course.

Of course.

So they have reindeer hunting. So we looked it up.

But you have to go through an outfitter.

Yeah, but the draw was two weeks ago, so we missed it. So now the plan is for next year. Make sure we have everything ready to go.

August 2026.

Enter the jaw.

Put it in your calendars, folks.

Here’s one.

Whether I’m in Iceland or not.

Oh, they’re cute.

Look at that one. That big. That’s a bull. I wonder if I call them bulls or bucks.

I don’t know, but it was.

Yeah, we were looking at Google images, pictures of reindeer.

You see one with a red nose?

None of them have red noses.

So I read that if you shoot one on the first day or two of the hunt, that third day. They’ll take you fishing or you can go bird hunting. They’ll just take you to go do something else.

Yeah. Look, there’s a Caribou. So for folks listening, a Caribou and a reindeer are very similar.

Yeah.

I don’t really see the difference.

Yeah.

So you can hunt Caribou in Alaska.

Interesting.

But anyway, our plan, I’m saving my money right now. It’ll cost, I think, a couple thousand bucks. Hey, I’m gonna. Hey, listen. NSR listeners, I need to go fund me. I mean, Katie.

Yeah, yeah, add me on the list.

So we’re gonna, I’m on a low budget here. One year from now, we’re gonna put in next February for a reindeer license for a tag.

Yeah.

And I’m gonna go over in the next August. If she’s there, if Katie’s still there, then I’ll just travel over. If she’s left and is playing somewhere else, we’ll meet up over there.

Yeah, I’m gonna be like, I’m sorry, coach, but I’ve been playing this for two years. I will not be here for this.

We’re going reindeer hunting. Yeah, that’s in Northern Iceland. It’s gonna be awesome.

That would be really cool.

Next is I want to take my own gun. I gotta see if I mean how hard that is if you got to use theirs or if I can.

No, you bring your. I was reading about it.

You bring your own.

That should be minimum 243.

Oh, that’s not a problem. And I’m gonna bring hand loaded bullets. I’ll load us up some good ammo. I’ll have you.

Oh, my gosh. What if only one of us gets it and the other one doesn’t?

Oh, that’ll be fine. Don’t matter.

The one.

The one outfit said they have 100% success rate.

Yeah.

Because I think the way that caribou hunting works, you’re hunting a herd when they’re on their migratory route.

Yeah.

So you just get ahead of the herd.

That’s crazy.

And if Iceland’s an island, how hard can it be to find? They can’t go to the ocean.

They only go in a circle.

We’ll find them.

They live about eight hours east of the city.

Okay.

You can take an hour flight over there. I’ve seen them my first year there, we went out there and played a game. And we had to drive. And I remember looking in the countryside, and I was like, that’s reindeer. That’s so cool.

That is cool.

We’re doing it a year and a half from now. We’ll do an episode after that.

Yeah, I shot.

I need to do an episode and. And do an update on how my hunting season went.

Yeah.

People like that. Or you’re gonna say you shot one.

I shot my first gun with Katie the other day.

You did?

Yep. It was.

They came over for breakfast.

It was like seven in the morning.

I gave my little 22. It said, shoot it in the water.

And that was the best day of work I’ve had. I was so. That whole day, I was like, whoa.

Yeah, you guys are pretty amped up.

Oh, we’re gonna have to. We’re gonna have to ramp that up.

I was scared to shoot it. You can ask Katie.

No, I had a 243 in the house, too. I was like, I should have gave that to them, too.

It was me and Annabelle. Never. Annabelle shot a gun by not.

My gun’s laying here. My carry gun is laying here on the table in front of us.

Hello.

It’s funny.

Yep.

Took it off my belt and put it on the table. So here we are recording this podcast with a firearm laying on the table.

We’re safe, y’all.

Yep.

All right, well, thanks. I love both of y’all. Thankful for. Thankful for both of y’all. And I hope our folks enjoyed this. Hope y’all enjoyed this episode. It was a little bit longer than normal, but I know I enjoyed it, and I hope you did, too, so. We’ll keep you posted on Katie’s journey over the next year. It’s going to be awesome. And I don’t know if we get a chance to at some point watch games like we did last year, we’ll let our audience know how they can do that. That was fun getting to watch a couple games. It’s not easy because they don’t, the way the rules work, I guess, of broadcasting is very difficult to watch your games, but we got to see a couple and I love that.

Hopefully this year it’ll be more than one. Good. Because last year it was because we were playing such lower teams. They picked the better games.

Okay.

To stream. So we didn’t get it. But hopefully this year it’ll be more than just the final game.

Be fun. All right. See y’all next week. Thanks for listening to no Sanity required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us@swoutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources. And we’ll see you next week on no Sanity. Required.