Romans 8 Unpacked | Behind the Scenes of SWO25
What happens after camp ends? Join the Snowbird teaching team as they reflect on summer, sharing insights from Romans 8 teachings and stories of transformation that occurred throughout the summer sessions.
- Going deeper into Romans 8 and wishing they had more time to unpack its richness
- The challenge of addressing technology and AI with students and youth pastors
- How sermon preparation is like swimming in an ancient current – both being shaped by and guiding others through Scripture
- JB’s powerful story of her sister unexpectedly attending camp
- Reflections on students coming to faith throughout the summer
- The legacy of faithful ministry and impact across generations
- Finding humor in ministry – including the infamous eagle costume worship story and the Rob/Spencer confusion
Send us your Snowbird story for the upcoming NSR Stories book at the link in the description!
View Transcript – Romans 8 Unpacked
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
JB
Hello, everyone. I’m here with the elite team. I’m just kidding.
Brody
Elite membership.
JB
But, this episode is going to be kind of, a behind the scenes look at summer, kind of, an overview of our teachings and just the summer in general and then, I thought it would be cool to ask them, maybe to go into detail about some things that they wish they could have gone more into depth in their sessions in their sermons, or things that maybe were left out, but they wish they could have really touched on and zoomed in on. So, we just thought this would be a kind of, cool series, maybe now that you are home, if you came to summer camp or listen to the sessions, this is just kind of, one step further. So, this summer was one of my favorites, Romans 8 is what we covered and you can’t miss really and our teaching was phenomenal. I thought it was great. Breakouts were great. Rob, I had a Zach and Rob moment, you know how a lot of people say Maddie Welch and I look alike. Maddie said that multiple times over the summer, people would come up to her and be great job on your breakout. So, I feel…
Zach
That’s how it feels.
JB
I feel your pain.
Brody
The bad thing is people confuse me and Zach, you realize that, people…
JB
Oh, for real?
Brody
Oh, yes.
JB
I though you’re kidding.
Brody
Yeah, because they just associate the stage is actually in worship. Zach’s teaching too. So, I think that really confuses them and then, I’m teaching, people are not perceptive. A lot of people not people, but a lot of people don’t observe, they don’t have situational awareness.
Zach
20:20, vision, they just don’t have it.
Brody
But, speaking of funny things, the funniest thing that happened all summer happened the last night of the last week, there was a kid. This kid’s family is very connected to SWO, this is a snowbird kid. Now, he’s never lived here, his dad used to work here, but not since this kid’s been born and this kid’s way out of the box, he’s a really big personality, a very funny, quirky kid. So, on Fridays, we practice each day of the week at Snowbird is like a theme day. So, this year, I think what we had camo day. Jersey day was Tuesdays. Camo day was Thursdays. What was Wednesday?
JB
Guys and girls.
Rob
Guys and girls black and white.
Brody
Oh, that’s right, guys and girls black and white, but Friday is always freedom Friday. So, the other days will change year to year, Friday is always freedom Friday. So, you see a lot of American flags, see a lot of eagles. This kid bought one of those blow up costumes, it was an eagle, a bald eagle. So, it’s got, the costume has got its own little fan. Did you see him?
JB
No, I don’t think I did.
Brody
You didn’t see this kid?
Rob
Are you kidding?
JB
I don’t think so.
Brody
So, he’s got, it’s got a little fan back here that just blows and it inflates the costume. So, the head’s, about this big and it’s a big eagle and right under the beak is a little clear cellophane window that he’s looking out of and so, did you see him?
Zach
Oh, absolutely.
Rob
Did you see him the last night?
Zach
Yes.
Brody
So, before the service on Friday night, I’m talking to his dad, who’s a really good personal friend of mine and the kid walks up and he said they’re spraying fart spray in my costume. So, apparently some of the kids in his youth group had come up behind him, which, of course, they did. That’s what any of us would have done and he’s in this inflated thing.
Rob
Spray it into the fan.
Brody
Into the fan that’s blowing, that’s keeping the thing inflated and he’s gagging, he’s oohs.
JB
I mean, have you guys ever smelled bird spray? It smells, it’s all horrid.
Brody
It’s awful, it smells dirty rotten eggs, they’re, decaying. So, he’s in this costume okay, so as I walk off, he’s in the service is about to start, Friday night pre-service is like a crazy, wild dance party. So, he takes his eagle costume and he’s in the dance party, he’s on stage, Jesus freaking it and all that. So, the service ends and on Friday nights, so we don’t do a traditional invitation or altar call at SWO, we typically after the sermon, we have an extended time of worship through songs. So, each night we’ll sing a couple of songs, but on Friday night, it’s an extended time, we invite students, if you’d like to come forward and just worship together, it’s just an opportunity for them to sort of, respond, we don’t have counselors, we don’t lead them in a prayer, it’s literally just a song service, but rather than sit in your seat, you can come forward, so the front of the stage just fills up, 10 or 12 people deep, it’s going up the aisles. This kid makes it to the front, he is directly in front of, thank the Lord for the Lord’s sense of humor in front of Zach Davis. So, Zach’s on the base. This kid is, boom, right there in the eagle costume, he’s like raising his little wings to worship the Lord and he couldn’t do this. So, it’s like singing for three, four songs that what’s the out of the gray or tending the grave song made for more and everybody’s just, there’s that part in the chorus where people’s hands would be racing and they’re doing this and he’s going…
Rob
And that big old thing…
Brody
In that big eagle head and he’s in the front, he’s in front of everybody.
JB
Oh, my goodness.
Brody
I was done. I was in the back. I always on Friday nights, I come around and stand at the sound booth, because I just love to watch that worship and that last Friday night I couldn’t worship, but I was very entertained, it was awesome. That kid was worshiping the Lord, fart spray and all.
Rob
Terribly awkward.
Brody
I have one other funny story and it is, I’m going to kick it off to Rob, it’s about the Rob Zach confusion, so Rob played the ultimate finally, after 20 years, he played the ultimate joke prank on a kid. So, hopefully that kid
Rob
On the chaperon.
Brody
oh, chaperon person listens to NSR is going to find this out right now.
JB
And can sleep easy,
Rob
Still blinking into a light somewhere. Okay, so everybody knows, for 20 years of my life, there’s been this comparison confusion and it’s never really bothered me. To me, it’s always just opportunity for humor. There’s times where it’s annoying when the time that it annoys me when people don’t try, they try to be funny, but they’re just being lazy, especially staff, eight weeks into the summer, one of them will be Spence oh, sorry and I’m no, no stop, come up with a good joke, or just let it go, but so adults, youth pastors, I get it and so, normally I will either, if somebody compliments my sermon from that morning when Zach preached, I’ll just say thank you and pass it along to Zach or be, sometimes I’m no, actually, okay, that was Zach, he’s also the bass player. We’re different humans, but this kid all week long, he was doing it not once, not twice, it was….
Brody
Not to be funny.
Rob
Not to be funny.
Zach
He just had no clue.
Rob
Just every time we interacted, he was saying, I just can’t tell you guys apart and so, finally it was, I think it was Friday and we’re a group of us were standing outside of the, in between the coop in the metal building and he comes up and he does it again and I said all right, I’m going to let you in on the Snowbird secret. I said, there aren’t two of us, there’s just one and he was so are you, is it Rob or Zach and I said, neither. I said, my real name is Timmy McCracken and Zach and Rob are made up characters that I play. I said, just as a joke and he went, what? Now, Zach had just walked away from this group 30 seconds ago and so, he’s going, what I was but I said, you cannot tell anybody that my real name is Timmy McCracken. If you go to our webpage, there’s two pictures of me, one Rob, one Zach and so, he finally walked, he had just turned around, walked away and Zach came back to the group and I said, all right, Spence we’re wearing, I’m in jeans, he’s in shorts. I’m in a black shirt, he’s in a green shirt. Whatever I said, you need to go walk right in front of that kid, turn around and say, for real, don’t tell anybody and he was what? I was just going do it and so, I hid behind the tree. Then I watched Zach walk over to him, he gets in front of him, he turns around and says, for real. Don’t tell anybody and then, he goes inside the building and that kid, you could see his head just exploding, because we had just talked 10 seconds ago and he, does a slow turn over to where we had just been talking and I’m behind the tree, so I’ll just hide and I had every intention on circling back and be I was just messing with you, but I didn’t.
Zach
That’s what you’re doing now.
Rob
that’s what I’m doing. So, Timmy McCracken is not a real person there is Timmy McCracken out there somewhere.
Brody
Here’s what I don’t get about the confusion between you all, because everybody does it. it’s crazy how many people do it and we were watching this weekend, so I bought this for you all. I bought a movie for you and lately, for the girls, okay, so for egg I bought, we were going to rent the new How to Train Your Dragon movie and because I’d heard it’s really good, so I went to rent it for like five bucks more, you just buy it. I was I buy it and then, this sometime this winter, the girls can watch it. So, we watched it Saturday night and it’s very entertaining, but they missed some of the characters from the cartoon version that I feel like they missed it on some Well, the couple who are twins, the guy and the girl that are twins, she’s kind of, shorter and frumpy and he’s tall and skinny and there’s a scene, there’s a moment where the guy goes, Gobber goes, wait, you all are twins and she’s our mom can’t even tell us apart, this, he’s tall and skinny, she’s frumpy, girl, boy, our mom can’t even tell us apart. I’m that’s Zach and Rob. How can you not tell them apart?
Rob
I wonder which one I am?
Brody
And somebody said, so we you’re the tall, skinny guy.
Rob
Oh, thank you. so tall.
Brody
You’re stoic. The chief,
Rob
The chief, yes, thank you.
Brody
Zach is he’s not here to defend himself, but you know? So, we’ve had several sets of twins working on staff through the years, but we had a set of twins last couple years, Lauren, Annabelle Evans, who are not identical, but they’re really close and you have to get to know them. So, here’s I can tell them apart if I’m spending time with them, if I go two weeks without interacting with them. Then I’m oh, starting over and so, when they stayed at our house a lot of times on the weekends, they spend a night at our house and they’ve been here for a year because they were in the institute. I understand people getting them confused.
Rob
Sure, they’re twins.
Brody
They’re twins, they’re not identical, but they’re twins. I understand people get me and my brother confused to this day, people and that’s because we’re in the same, we don’t look that much alike, but like I get it, your brothers, you’re in the same family. My grandmother would get us. I know who. I know which ones, which I just get, whatever. How people get you and I’m on a rant right now. NSR, audience, get it right, it doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t understand it. You’re both bald, you’re both have a trim beard and you’re about the same height, you a lot, whole lot taller than him, though.
Rob
Oh, by centimeters, yes, he comes up to about here on me.
Brody
So, other than height and hair and beard, I don’t get it, but it happens anyway. That was a funny highlight of summer. Well played. Week 10 was full of good, good gags. Let’s pivot. What was the other thing?
Rob
I think that’s all the time we have.
Brody
Thanks for tuning in next week.
JB
Yeah, I think it would be cool if you guys just have any maybe insights or thoughts of things that you wanted to maybe go deeper on in one of your sessions, or just maybe the topic in the book of Roman 8 in general. I know Zach, you did multiple youth pastor breakouts and a student breakout. Is there anything that sticks out to you of, I wish I could have a whole other session on this or, I really wish I could dive in on this topic.
Zach
Yeah, I think that’s great. I think especially with the nature of, teaching a breakout session, because you’re supposed to, in less than 30 minutes, cover a topic completely.
Brody
It’s a TED Talk.
Zach
It is, one thing that I do think is going to be really important that we talk about soon and I had this summer for the first time, we did, a Thursday afternoon where we did a conversation with youth pastors on technology and I think that did also carry over to the breakout that I taught to students on loving the Lord with our minds and what are we doing. How are we thinking well and like honoring the Lord and what we think and how we think and I do, one of the things that I think we’re going to have to address soon is talking about AI with students and student pastors, because I do think that we’re going into a completely different, uncharted territory, this huge social experiment that we’re just playing out as it comes along and I think for Christians especially, we’re going to have to be thinking through that, especially in light of, if we’ve been called to honor the Lord, to love the Lord with our heart, soul, minds and strength. How are we going to do that when it’s the culture is getting way easier to be way dumber? So, I think and especially and even with pastors, pastors having to deal with and how they’re going to use AI, whether you’re going to use it for, putting together sermons and illustrations or all sorts of stuff. So, that’s one of the things that came up week that I would have conversations with students and student pastors. I think will we’re going to have to address next year, at least, maybe before that.
JB
Yeah, I actually did use AI for one of my, element talks. I looked up if you were Satan, if you were the devil, how would you distract me and it actually was really spot on and so, I said that to the girls. I said, I looked this up on AI and I can’t remember exactly, it was like a list of ten, but it was I would distract you by your phone. I distract you, it was spot on. I was dang, that’s kind of, crazy, kind of, scary, yeah.
Rob
And at the end, it was dash Satan.
JB
XOXO Satan. I’m wait a second
Zach
It would increase your dependence on AI.
Rob
No, are you kidding me?
JB
Literally, it was crazy.
Brody
There was a we’re trying to put together a job description recently.
Rob
So, we were just writing some job descriptions and there hadn’t for that same position, there hadn’t already been one made. So, I was making it from scratch and so, I was staring at a blank page and okay, I need, I just need a reference point and so, it’s still so novel to me. I was all right, write a job description for guest services at Snowbird Outfitters and or no at first, I just said guest services position and it spit some stuff out and I was okay, this is a good starting point. There’s a lot to change, but, Adam I working on together, so the ball was rolling and then, I was like and he was the one typing on his computer and so, I was I wonder if I said at a Christian camp, how that would change it and so, I did Christian camp and it was oh. I thought, oh, it’s super cheesy and I was it’s pretty good and then, I was I wonder if I say at Snowbird and so, I put in, this job at Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters and it was exactly what we wanted to say, even to the point there was a line that we had already articulated on the actual just on this new document on our Google Drive and it took so in the millisecond that a little circle thought it found that line and put it in its suggested job description. That’s verbatim, it was like he just put the period. So, it is scary and the scary part is, it is super useful and some of it is, just a more advanced Google search and so, it’s not like you, it’s not all of it bad.
You’re looking for information, but you’d see the danger inherent to it, especially when you get into, sermon prep because and while we’re talking about it, what scares me is because I’ve done it where I asked it. I’ve taught a lot on the book of Hebrews. I do that for our institute. We, preach through it as a church and so, I asked it to write a sermon or a lesson. I think it was when I was for the institute. I was write a lesson on this chapter of Hebrews and it was from and from a certain perspective, whatever and it was so close to the outline that I already had and it was so good and there’s things where I was oh yeah, it absolutely said this better, because it’s pulling from all these other resources, but the what scares me and that is specific to preaching, is the instruction we have in the bible for preaching, it’s not just come up with this material, it’s set the believers an example like not only should you be articulating this truth, you should be demonstrating this truth and part of being able to demonstrate the truth is that you’re coming under that truth, being shaped by it, being molded by a while you’re crafting a sermon. You’re also being crafted by the Holy Spirit, he’s working that truth into you and if you skip that step just to give a maybe a better sermon than you would have preached on your own, as far as the transferring of information, you’ve robbed yourself of sanctification and you’ve robbed your people of the example that they’re supposed to be able to follow.
Brody
Man, that’s so good. because all of us, everybody at this table, has experienced you’re going to teach something and the practice and preparation of that is so personal, it really shapes you. You’re the first hearer of that for me and I know you do this, Rob, I’m not sure if you do Zach, where I practice preach my sermons like my because I start with a manuscript, I pare it down to and I’ll do some sentence diagrams in English.
Rob
I love sentence diagrams.
Brody
I do in English, just trying to figure out prepositions, objects, prepositions. So, I do that work. That’s what gets my mind in the flow and the current of that text, you would miss that if you just plugged in, but then I go for a walk and I say the sermon and I time it and that first time, it might be an hour and then, I come back and I condense that manuscript down to from, to seven pages, to five to three, to when I’m at camp. I want to get it down to one page and then, I want to condense that to a note card size, bullet point list. Now I don’t do that church or when I’m speaking to adults, but with students, because my personal style of communicating with students is to remove the podium and just walk the floor and interact with them and that’s unique to me. That’s not a right or wrong way to do, it’s just what works for me with students that requires a lot more practice in rehearsal, for me, you can’t do that with, you’d lose that with, but there are guys and gals that are going to start using this.
JB
Well even like personal stories, looking back on sermons that may have, really clicked with me, or I’ve still looked back on and remember to this day, it’s because a beautiful picture of, a personal story that then is, related into it just helps you understand the gospel and with AI, what is it? It can’t do that, you know? I think in one of your breakouts, I think it might be the one on technology or maybe you just say it a lot, you just say, Christians should be smarter than everyone else and I know that’s kind of, a first drawing to hear oh, really, but it honestly like why shouldn’t we be, why aren’t we, doing research and digging deep and growing our mind and that’s such a good point.
Zach
Especially if we say that we believe Christianity first and foremost, because it’s true. If it’s true, then Christians are the ones who believe that. That was in the student breakout. Christians are the ones who believe the truth about the universe. So, we should be the ones who know it the best and then, one of the things that we’ve, I’ve been talking about with AI, a way of condensing what both you all just said, is I think AI can be really helpful if the main goal of what you’re trying to do is to get a product, but if you’re concerned about the process, then it actually hinders, but that’s where, because we do want that process for people who are preaching and teaching God’s Word, we want it to be working on us and becoming a part of us, I love what you said, getting our brains in the flow, what is God communicating through this author, how is he, why does it make sense? Okay, you can understand that and then, from that you can preach that passage, because it’s become a part of you, but people have been doing this forever. This is just another way of people taking shortcuts. how many times you even the past 10 years, there’s been so many pastors that, they’ve been oh, plagiarism, plagiarism, plagiarism and it’s like and so, that’s, it’s just, it’s, that’s the easy shortcut temptation to anything,
Brody
That current analogy for me, I always think of you all remember when we used to go swim the Nantahala Falls their staff training, it’s so fun and what was so good about it is you had staff members that were scared of learning how to run the falls in their boat, they’re already freaked out about becoming a river guide and it’s an overwhelming task. That river’s not that hard, but moving that boat with a bunch of people in it that may not be cooperating. So, we wanted to teach them two things, we wanted to teach them, if you’re in this water, you’re going to feel some panic, but then for you as a guide, you should be comfortable in this water, because you’re the person that might have to pull somebody out. So, we would go down to the Nantahala Falls and we would enter the river, on river right above the falls, we go in and we would swim it and you’re basically, you’re just power stroking, but it takes you, boom and it buries you and you and you pop up and then, you buries you and you pop up and you’re just but we tell them the whole time, just swim, just swim and to me, preaching is like that you’re in this current that’s ancient and it’s been flowing since the foundation of the earth, since before it and I’m diving in and I’m swimming in this current, but I’m also pulling people, to safety or to the security of what the scripture is given them and you don’t get that with AI, there’s no way.
Rob
In relationship to Romans 8 is, one of the most enjoyable things leading up to our summer sermons was revisiting the flow that is throughout the book, the current or the argument that that God has inspired Paul to lace into that letter and so, revisiting that together in conversations and what we did during staff training, then you’re back in that flow and so, the context just is building and building and building, so that when you get to, just that, peak of Romans 8:1 if all the other context is in place you’re set up, not to mishandle it and not to go off in a weird tangent, it keeps you hemmed in to the truth of that passage, which is so enjoyable, one, if the question of, what do I wish I could have gone deeper on would it just be, oh we got so much of the book of Romans. Your introductory sermon, was a great, bringing everyone up to speed enough to appreciate that verse 1, but yeah, I would wish, oh, if we could do the whole book of Romans in the summer. There’s so much depth and all those passages, you could have broken them down smaller, give them more time, our goal is always okay, what’s the main point of this section that I have and that’s what I want to highlight, but there’s always so much more, I had the privilege initially, it was slated for Brody to preach 28 – 30 and he wanted to do back to back on Friday, so that left that passage and he was well, you or Spencer and I was I got it. I’ll just go ahead. Just go ahead. Is that okay and it’s such a deep passage and so, what’s the unifying point and principle here and I was emphasizing this is God’s eternal love and that’s what ultimately gives us our security is seeing my security from that perspective of God, from outside of time saying, oh, I’ve always loved, but there’s so much more that you could go into and supporting passages and on foreknowledge and predestination and being conformed to the image of Christ, but.
Brody
I struggled a little bit with those two Friday Sermons. I came into the summer thinking, I’m going to write these, I’m going to read a big chunk, it’s going to be epic, because the text is epic and I felt oh, if I had to do over again, I would approach Friday a little different. The content that we have that you posted the two Friday sessions that came about mid-summer, I had really continued to tweak and change and finally got it where I felt like I was able to convey what I needed to convey. That’s one of the things that’s hard when you so like when we teach narratives SWO 24 was life of Christ, so it’s all narratives SWO 26 is going to be narrative,
JB
A little teaser, right there.
Brody
Little teaser, that’s coming out. Well, you’ll know, you guys will know here in the next week or so, we’ve got the SWO 26 teaching focus nailed down and we’re starting to build some branding and content for promoting it, but there’s going to be a good bit of narrative is easier to just build a sermon and stick with it. When you’re getting into doctrinally deep water and you’re trying to convey it to the average 13-year-old, it can be very difficult and so, I, for me, the only regret from the summer is I feel like I didn’t put enough time into getting it where the average 13-year-old could understand a couple of those sessions early on. Now, some of those sessions I stuck with all summer and never changed anything, but then, what Rob said, I really enjoyed Monday night, it forced me, how do you come up with a chapter by chapter summary of the book of Romans for seven chapters and then, land on chapter eight, verse one and do that all in a 25 minute sermon that took for me a ton of work personally, but in the finished product, I was really each week, I was personally encouraged back to I was in the current each week, it was renewing my sort of, soul and mind to teach that. I love doing that. I will say that. Well, first off, Zach’s breakouts to leaders, every year, we get a lot of feedback from that, but every single day, I was getting a ton of interaction with people saying, saying, thank you for you all doing this and then, we want more of this, you always have so much time in the day, you just can’t, it’d be awesome if we could do two leaders breakouts a day, if we could do two student breakouts, or if we could have a set, a series of non-required breakouts for students, or whatever, but so I think the other, sort of, not regret, but what I wish is that we had more opportunity to teach and more chance to give them content, but JB, your session, was phenomenal. The Lord has clearly gifted you and we’ve prayed, I’ve prayed about God just bringing us women that could communicate and Brooke Davis, Brooke Lovinggood now, it was Brooke Davis who was the first young staff member that we had do the girl talk, right and she was just phenomenal.
JB
Which is crazy, because she was my counselor.
Brody
That’s pretty wild.
JB
Full circle moment.
Brody
Yeah and I had, when I went to her and said, I feel like the Lord’s given you a gift and we worked through that and she just, it was so incredible and then, Kilby did it and then, we’ve had a few other girls, Macy and
Rob
Anna Rose has done it.
Brody
Emma Burnett, yeah. Well, Anna Rose, but as far as staff girls, Emma and Macy did a great job, but then we’ve had older gals, older being adults, non-summer staff. Little has done it a lot. Anna Rose does phenomenal job, we had Moose do it one year, but finding a person within the team that’s like this person is connected to the students on a day to day basis, a strategic prayer. So, first off, I’m just grateful that you said yes, because I know it was a you had to pray about it and then, second, it was literally okay, we found our girl like it was incredible. So, but I’m curious what your feedback was. I’m assuming, overwhelmingly positive.
JB
Yes, it was always super encouraging. I would try my best to kind of, go out and linger, not to, get compliments, but, just to talk available, but it definitely took a toll on me, I would be exhausted after and I would have to fight being I just want to get my car. I’m drenched in sweat. I’m I just want to shower and so, I would really have to, push to be no, see the bigger picture. Go out, come hang out and that was always super encouraging and rewarding. Just girls being I loved what you said, I agreed completely with everything that you said, it also was that’s something that I’ve prayed through and thank the Lord a lot. Is my I hope this doesn’t come across as arrogant, but my way to connect with girls and even when I was in college and working with my college ministry and youth ministry at college, I would constantly just be thanking the Lord like it did, just come very naturally to me and something that I just enjoy is, talking with high schoolers and middle school girls and just, being honest, of being this is a struggle that is very common and let’s address it and so, that is something that I’ve been very thankful that the Lord has given me and I’m very thankful that you guys, I guess, maybe saw that in me and because I never, ever, ever would have saw myself doing the girls breakout, still to this day, I’m what just happened, what in the world and so, even that is such a cool, just full circle moment, I said, Brooke was my counselor when she did the girls talk and I remember, being she’s so cool, that was so awesome and then, I was a camper came for years to Snowbird and never in a million years would I have thought that I would be on stage, speaking and stuff.
Brody
I’ve dreamed of, I’ve never even really shared this, but I want to get we’ve talked about it internally, but I want to get to a point where all of Wednesday is separated right now, we start with a joint worship service with guys and girls and then, we separate them for that morning breakout, then we separate them for the evening. I want to get to a point where the whole day they’re completely separated. Two worship services in the morning, two breakouts, two worship services in the evening. So, I feel like we took a step closer to that this year. for sure and we appreciated that you handled the scripture faithfully, because that’s obviously, that’s a big deal here and it earns and gains the confidence of leaders and parents. So, that was for me as someone who wants to develop leaders, especially and as I’m getting older and really wanting to build that next generation of leadership. That’s maybe the most gratifying thing for me. This a big statement. The most gratifying ministry piece to the summer was your Wednesday morning because it’s this is what we strive for because I remember you as a middle school camper, I got video dancing on stage, or, Little does, Little has, have you all seen the video of JB in the coop, pre, pre-service, people are just mingling seventh grade JB and those, what are those boots called?
JB
Combat boots.
Brody
Okay, so, pants tucked in them, it’s a winter SWO, it’s when Jody Livingston was her student pastor, everybody’s just talking the coop, it’s everybody’s just doing their thing waiting for the service to start at Winter SWO and we’re playing music and JB, Little JB, jumps on stage and does a full-on dance routine, Moses Holloway.
JB
Honestly, yes, most it is that’s crazy,
Brody
It’s so crazy, it’s hilarious.
JB
My mom actually was a chaperon that trip and Little was standing off to the side and was what is this girl, oh my gosh, laughing and she looks at my mom and goes, she’s going to work here one day.
Rob
So, that should probably be made available in the notes right post that up. [Crosstalk]
Brody
It is very we talked, you talked in an episode, it was the Eric Rudolph episode. Rudolph…
JB
Chainsaw man.
Brody
There was one other thing, Rudolph, the something in the chainsaw. Anyway, that was a good episode. I’ve got, have you got a lot of feedback? I’ve gotten so much feedback from episode, it’s probably five months ago now, three, four anyway, but at the end of that episode, the point of that episode was this guy who said he was on mission from God and he’s blowing stuff up and killing innocent people, he got off track and so, sincere pursuit of life in Christ, you’re going to be genuine, you’re going to be transparent. You’re going to and in that part of what people have talked a lot about, was you talking about your sister or a family member, there’s your sister.
JB
Yes, my sister.
Brody
[Overlap] but it and again, we can edit this.
JB
No, we. I was actually thinking we should talk about it.
Brody
She came this summer to hear you.
JB
Yes. So, I’ve worked at Snowbird for four ish years, on and off and I’ve always my sister for a while, lived in a homosexual relationship and has completely walked away at one time for my family and has just completely abandoned her faith, we are grown up in the same household, all my other siblings are walking with the Lord, my parents are super faithful, great parents, great household and when she went to college, she just completely abandoned all of that and since then, at times, has been very hostile towards our beliefs, our faiths, maybe more conservative, I’m not even going to say conservative, just like beliefs from scripture, what scripture talks about and so, for all four years I’ve worked here, I’ve always been you guys should come up and get a cabin and come to a few services, or the Women’s Conference, I’ll get you guys tickets and we can all come up and hang out with mom and stuff and she’s come up, I think twice and the whole time, very, sitting like this, bouncing her legs, just very shut down and almost just came because, the rest of my family came, which is still such a blessing, but this summer, I did the Wednesday girls breakout, what we just talked about and I knew my mom was planning to come up and visit and she was going to bring my aunt, who my aunt her husband used to bring students here, so I was really excited for them to come up and see, the growth of camp and everything.
Then my sister walks in and you can’t miss her, she has bright pink hair and so, I see her and I’m literally what, I did not know she was coming and obviously I was wishing she would come, wishing my family could come and I was so blown away. Also, Anna Grace is her name. Anna Grace has come to camp, she came probably, 2012 to like 2013 so, it was so, so encouraging that she got to come to camp and see, they’re still solid, they’re still preaching the same things and it’s still the same solid pastors and teachers here and so, much has changed and grown and things are different, but the solidness and like everything like that really, truly matters is still the same, the core is still the same and she got to see, all my element girls, which was so fun and they just greeted her with, love and didn’t they were obsessed with her, they’re that’s your sister, she’s so pretty, oh my gosh, her hair and so, and then, even we walked around camp. I took her through the snack shack and the metal building and everything like that and there’s a few times throughout the week that people will recognize me or come up and say, thank you so much for your talk, whatever and it’s always super encouraging, but this day, it was like every second, people were coming up and being are you JB, from the podcast, I recognize your voice.
A man literally, was I recognize your voice from the podcast, so many people were coming up and that was, I think, just honestly, I think you say sometimes, an attaboy from the Lord and I think it was just so cool for her to see my sister is, working full time in a ministry and is having an impact on people and it’s not just, oh, she’s a summer camp counselor, blah, but I think it was just so cool and even after she was I didn’t know you were a celebrity, I was no, I’m not, but it was just so cool for her to, I think, see that and see just like Snowbird is preaching the gospel and it’s having an impact and it’s real, it’s true, it’s good and even, I appreciate you. Brody sarin was can I give you a hug, how are you and even stuff like that, because it’s I know she knows the truth and I know, even just she’s been here and she sees all this stuff and I don’t know, it was really cool, it was like that was, I think, week five, so right in the middle of summer. So, that was a really good, almost kick in the pants of encouragement, just it just gave me so much hope. That’s something I struggle with sometimes, of she’s too far gone, or, she’s so stuck in her ways, or she’s so stubborn, but that was just super encouraging that she came by her choice, she wanted to come so, super, super awesome, thank the Lord, thank you Jesus
Brody
I think she even got a shirt.
JB
Yes, she got the camo Snowbird shirt and wears it and wears, yep, yeah. Awesome.
Brody
We need to continue to be praying for her, she’s got such an awesome personality. I always think. I can’t help, but think when I meet a person like her, if she got on fire for God and just fell in love with Jesus and started to really try to impact people.
JB
That’s what me and my family say all the time, because she’s also such a great writer, great communicator, she’s a high school teacher right now and she’s, even to her high school students, it’s in a more lower income area, she’s great, she provides some, hygienic stuff in the classroom, snacks, she’s great and connects to the kids so well and I think that all the time, just praying that she will, fall back in love with Jesus and it would be awesome.
Brody
That was a big day. I remember several times that day seeing you all around camp and just Lord. I don’t know what she’s thinking right now, but please just soften her heart and provide opportunities for conversation. Well, I think that’s kind of, that’s a good place to kind of, wrap it up. I appreciate what’s been said about Romans 8, when we went through it at Red Oak the first time, before it was Red Oak, was Snowboard house church, we spent a year 52 weeks in Romans 8 and that was with adults and with students, we had to try to tackle it in eight or nine sessions. So, I feel like we did a good job, we did a faithful job. I think the feedback I got was very solid, very positive and it’s crazy how often somebody will say, I think this summer is my favorite teaching. the same people will say the same thing the next summer, which is a really cool picture of, the progression and sanctification and in a person’s life and in a ministry and that, it seems like the Lord always just gives folks what they need. so many stories of I thought maybe cool to close with just sharing a few stories that stand out that were very powerful and one for me was I know that Andrew Roberts is a student pastor at Bel Air Baptist down in Gulfport, or Gulf shore, somewhere on the on the Gulf Coast in the south Mississippi. Where is it?
Rob
Gulf of America.
Brody
America and there’s a man in his church named David Brooks who went to be with the Lord back in April. David was at Be Strong in March and David was kind of, a larger than life personality, he’s a physically large guy, he had a big personality and he had come as a chaperon with our church for years and would then also attend Be Strong conferences and a lot of us got to know him and he had a very aggressive cancer and when he was here at Be Strong in March, you’d have never known he was in the final stages of a terminal illness, went home and died pretty quick after that, his wife, Lori and their two daughters, who I’m not going to name, they were here and it was just a very emotional thing for me to interact with that family and pretty cool, we told them, for life, you come anything you want to at SWO. So, they’re coming to winter SWO to the mom and the two daughters are coming to respond, but it was a pretty powerful thing for me as a dad, but also recognizing what this week did for those girls, this was a place that their dad loved and that they had shared experiences with him, it was a really, I had a hard time the week they were here, just personally, just in the emotion of it, but, brave little girls and they’re not little girls, or teenagers, but that was a really impactful experience for me this summer and so, I’m grateful for that and just you guys can pray for the Brooks family as they continue to navigate crazy few years ahead of them, just coming into adulthood, anyway, that stands out to me, but I know if any you all had stories specific, maybe conversion stories, so many kids came to faith, anything stands out.
Rob
That’s what my favorite thing from the summer is, hearing, that students are coming to Christ and so, I got Eric, really good friend, he’s no longer the student pastor, he’s like an associate pastor, but he texted me the week that we were on vacation and said they had baptized 10 students and I think he said seven of them had, made a profession of faith from their week at camp, that just so it’s humbling, to play any part in that and I think and there are so many stories, so many text messages were sent every week of camp and so, that to me, that’s always the best you love every aspect of what we do and why we do it, but to know that God is in his grace chosen to use us to see students crossover from death to life doesn’t get better than that.
Brody
Yeah and we don’t do like I said I mentioned earlier, we don’t do a formal invitation or altar call. The reason for that is there’s opportunity for students to respond in a more measurable way, where we can really make the hand off to the student pastor and follow up with discipleship and so, rather than do a large altar call, we really push those decisions into share groups and one on one conversations and but then we ask our staff, when this happens, let us know and our staff fills out some summaries for youth pastors to know what a student has expressed or professed, but those texts, we would be sitting around and just there were a lot of nights where texts would just ping, ping, ping, ping, they’d start coming in. Kids were making professions of faith and share groups and one on one conversations and Lord only knows how many. pretty awesome, though.
Zach
Another thing for me that was so encouraging was, I would, every Saturday morning, I just, I’d come in and just help people check out and just the conversations that I would have with student pastors, it was just so enjoyable and real humbling, talking about the way that coming to camp has affected their church and their personal relationship with the Lord and their ability to love on their students and teach the bible and just, it was such a good wake up, call me, it’s we’re not just getting to invest in students, which is awesome, but we’re getting like I had student pastors Brawling talking about what an influence snowboard has had on them and their personal relationship with Lord and their relationship with Lord and their ministry and their marriages, it was just really, it is super cool, really humbling.
Brody
We learned this summer when MacArthur went to be with the Lord, we learned and we’re not a ministry that’s none of us have ever been to Master’s college or seminary, university or seminary, so we’re not affiliated with them, but I think most of us just appreciate his faithfulness. When someone finishes well and gets carried off on their shield, it’s kind of, thank the Lord. A saint has gone to be with the Lord, he finished his race and he did it well, he gripped the sword in one hand gripped the plow right to the end and I was thinking about, while you’re saying that Zach, I was thinking about that conference that I mentioned earlier, where I got to hear Sproul and MacArthur, who have both been to be with the Lord. I don’t remember. I don’t remember learning anything at that conference, I couldn’t tell you something I learned or specificity of a sermon. The only, thing that I remember CJ Mahaney. I remember a point he made he spoke at that and it didn’t have to do with penal substitution, atonement, it was in his introduction, it had to do with Paul, you hear Paul’s love and care for the people in the way he opens and closes letters and how as pastors and leaders, we should genuinely care for people that really impacted me.
But, I remember, it was not long after that that I felt this was 2008 I felt strongly and we started to have these discussions. Snowbird needs to be a place where students and student pastors and leaders come and they, experience that type of like a conference, it’s not first a camp experience, but it’s a bible conference where they’re edified and exhorted from the scriptures and I feel you know that’s become a, that’s been for 20 years, almost a mark of this ministry and for people to be able to the way we appreciated MacArthur’s faithfulness or Piper’s faithfulness, I disagree with certain things with both those guys, which is crazy, because I know they’re way smarter than me, they’re definitely more educated, they’re way smarter, but I just, but I disagree with that. I disagree with it, I know and some nothing, not, not key doctrinal state, but I’m not a pacifist. When Piper said, you shouldn’t have a gun, I wouldn’t have a gun. I wouldn’t have a gun in my house if somebody broke in and was going to attack my wife and daughter, I wouldn’t like what in the world, we are not the same, but then I think what that man has done to edify and encourage me. I’m so thankful. MacArthur, I don’t know, there’s some things.
With his eschatology or with dispensationalism and covenant theology, I don’t know. There’s, things that I’m not sure I would agree with him on. I don’t even know for sure, but he was faithful to the end, he finished his race and I think the way that we appreciate guys like that, we’ve been around long enough now people are starting to appreciate, I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people say, you all been faithful, thank you for a quarter century of faithfulness and it which is another highlight this summer is we now have a group of former staff members from all over the country who put their kids together and create their own group and send them to camp and then, they’ll say, Daniel and heather Richie both posted on social media, our kids are sitting under the teaching of this ministry, Romans 8, which is what we said under in 2005 it impacted us and now it’s impacting a second generation. That’s pretty gratifying. So as long as we’re here, we’re here like and when we’re gone, somebody else will be in our places doing this. This ministry is going to do what this ministry is currently doing until Jesus comes back. So, we’re not going to change. That’s for sure. Awesome. Good summer. All right, so we’ll, we’re. JB, let’s discuss SWO 26 in next week’s episode. In the next episode, then we’ll have some social media stuff ready. Yes, I’m excited about it.
JB
Oh, wait, one thing that we need to mention there’s, I think you guys know, there’s a part two coming out to the NSR book called NSR stories, where we hear from a lot of your stories, kind of, what we were just talking about. So, there’s going to be a link in this episode and then, notes where you can submit if you feel inclined. I meant to tell you that. Sorry. Sorry, it’s
Brody
Thank you. It’s awesome. No Sanity’s book is going to be all no sanity stories, we recently had Hannah Welch on here, Matty’s mom and that’s going to be one of the stories we’ve got a portion of Gar Bozeman story, it’s linked in the book. There’s a QR code, or, I don’t even know what I’m saying right now.
Rob
Code, Link, code.
Brody
Did I get that awesome? where people can go read a portion of Garb’s story. So, no sanity stories…
JB
Meant to tell you that earlier, but…
Brody
How this ministry has impacted you? Be good. I’m excited about that book, it’s going to be fun. Already got a bunch of content laid out and written and we just got to start refining it and if you don’t have a copy of the No Sanity Required book, get your copy, it’s crazy. How many of those things have flown off the shelf and the feedback we’ve gotten, it’s been awesome. So, thanks to folks that have listened and then, I’m going to, or have read that and then, I’m going to, in the next couple of weeks, I’m going to sit down and read listener emails, listener comments, tons of comments in NSR comment section. So, just we love, we read those and we don’t always read them back on here, but we read those and they’re very encouraging to us. We’re going to read a bunch of those and we’re going to devote an entire episode to that, so that’ll be coming soon. So, send, leave us comment. Send us an email, we appreciate it. All right, thank you.
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